Trump's Coup d'état.

[phiwum]

It's attitudes like this, that is causing democracy in the US to collapse.

I think you may have misunderstood cosmicaug, who was simply making a little joke. The link to the cartoon may give context.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Trump's such an anomaly I question the assumption that even a coup with him is going to follow historical trends.

 

[eerok]

It's pretty much unimaginable to me that he won't. Even if he remains President.

I don't doubt that he'll try to run again, but I doubt he'd win the Republican primary next time. He's just too messy, and there are too many others who could rise up to capitalize on the damage he's done. As for Trump remaining president, I don't see that happening at all. America is divided, but it's not that far gone. I have to admit that I'm observing this election with some sense of unease, though.

 

[eerok]

As I understand it, the board found the discrepancies troubling in 2018 as well. Figuring out why these discrepancies, if they differ from other parts of the state, are occurring is perfectly reasonable. I don't mean that the election shouldn't be certified because of these discrepancies but that they are a problem that ought to be fixed rather than ignored.

What I say above depends, of course, on whether such discrepancies are normal and expected. From what I understand, there are more districts failing to balance in Wayne County than elsewhere. Seems reasonable to try and understand why.

If there's a legitimate issue, and if an audit could be useful in avoiding future problems, then of course I'm all for it. It's just the gaslighting and the attempt to prevent/delay the certification that bothers me.

 

[Vixen]

Proud Boys on parler are calling for one of county officials in Michigan responsible for certifying the results to be doxxed and harassed. Multiple threats of violence in the replies.



https://twitter.com/econbrkfst/status/1329125482994884609

There has got to be some dark humour in the Proud Boys 'US Patriots' posting on Katie Hopkins'* new website. (Hopkins is a British far-right ex-Apprentice star who was banned from Twitter for her evermore racist and offensive tweets, so she set up Parler for people like herself to say whatever they like.)

*NB she is considered an hilarious joke by most people.

 

[Vixen]

Have we not exhausted this exchange yet?

No, he's still at it.

 

[phiwum]

If there's a legitimate issue, and if an audit could be useful in avoiding future problems, then of course I'm all for it. It's just the gaslighting and the attempt to prevent/delay the certification that bothers me.

Sure, me too. I don't think certification should be held up for an audit. As I understand the situation, the discrepancies are pretty small. They are certainly not evidence of large scale fraud and the numbers are fairly south of the 150k votes needed to flip the state.

But having an audit to address unusual discrepancies would be reasonable and useful.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

At some point, people will be in the streets either demanding state governments don't enable it, or out in DC to insist that the legislature doesn't play along. Clashes with police and the military in such a scenario seems inevitable.

I can envision Trump calling for all loyal supporters to converge on Washington on January 20th to protest Biden’s swearing in. If done right I suspect he could get huge numbers out for something like that.

 

[CORed]

It's pretty much unimaginable to me that he won't. Even if he remains President.

If he remains president, I'm not sure there will be an election in 2024.

 

[cosmicaug]

If he remains president, I'm not sure there will be an election in 2024.

Why would you have an election? Have you seen how much cheating goes on in those things?

 

[cosmicaug]

I suggest we stop worrying about Godwin for at least the immediate future.

For what it's worth, I think Godwin thinks you should take trump seriously.

This is absolutely correct. Trump is relying to some large extent on the expectation that his opposition won't take it seriously. I'm taking it seriously.

Though frankly, I think that gives Trump way too much credit.

 

[The Atheist]

I don't doubt that he'll try to run again, but I doubt he'd win the Republican primary next time. He's just too messy, and there are too many others who could rise up to capitalize on the damage he's done.

I'm seeing that a lot and I'm not buying a bar of it.

The Republicans are not the Trump Party, and it's somewhat ironic that a bloke who has never been able to control anything but his personal narrative has managed to control s dominant political movement.

Did you notice how many people voted for him?

I can envision Trump calling for all loyal supporters to converge on Washington on January 20th to protest Biden’s swearing in. If done right I suspect he could get huge numbers out for something like that.

I'd be prepared to wager very heavily that if he did, he'd get very few takers.

First off, no matter how many Proud Jerks and other Nazis turn up, they will be outnumbered by hundreds to one, because the Dems will flood Washington in even greater numbers than they did for Obama.

Secondly, security will be tighter than a mouse's anus - even the dumbest redneck Nazi clown will realise he has zero chance of getting within miles of anywhere with his guns, and since they're all cowards propped up by guns, they won't go.

 

[Mumbles]

The core message of Trump and his Republican supporters is this:

Democracy doesn't work, because it is too susceptible to fraud.

For the good of America, we have to abandon Democracy.

They've been at it for decades, when you get down to it. It's simply...

How should I put this...

It's simply more visible now, in part because older strategies are failing, and in part because the current GOP leader is a pathological narcissist who can't just shut his yap or move along and wait for next time. People like Romney and Dole could easily put their long-term goals above themselves - Cheeto Benito's only goal is self-aggrandizement.

 

[eerok]

I'm seeing that a lot and I'm not buying a bar of it.

The Republicans are not the Trump Party, and it's somewhat ironic that a bloke who has never been able to control anything but his personal narrative has managed to control s dominant political movement.

Did you notice how many people voted for him?

My speculation is that the GOP don't want Trump back. They want Trump's base, and it's in their interest to devise a way to take it over with someone more sane and predictable at the helm.

I don't think Trump has made any friends among the GOP lately. It must be very uncomfortable being left holding the wet diaper of Trump's failure. Any allies one makes through instilling fear are not really allies, and that pretty much describes the GOP at this time.

It's all just speculation, of course.

 

[lobosrul5]

First off, no matter how many Proud Jerks and other Nazis turn up, they will be outnumbered by hundreds to one, because the Dems will flood Washington in even greater numbers than they did for Obama.

Secondly, security will be tighter than a mouse's anus - even the dumbest redneck Nazi clown will realise he has zero chance of getting within miles of anywhere with his guns, and since they're all cowards propped up by guns, they won't go.

I'm just not entirely sure about that. First off, Dems are actually taking COVID seriously unlike Trump supporters. Secondly, who is this security loyal to? Who gets to pick which agents are on the Secret Service, ultimately the sitting President. I will remain nervous about the transition to Biden until the afternoon of January 20, if and when I see video of him entering the White House.

 

[The Atheist]

And if you haven't seen this, enjoy!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/ameri...ns-down-his-face-in-marathon-press-conference

 

[The Atheist]

My speculation is that the GOP don't want Trump back. They want Trump's base, and it's in their interest to devise a way to take it over with someone more sane and predictable at the helm.

That's their entire problem - as I see it, most of those 70 million votes were for Trump, not the Republicans, and without him dying I don't see a way for the party to keep them all.

I'm just not entirely sure about that. First off, Dems are actually taking COVID seriously unlike Trump supporters.

So, those tens of thousands of people celebrating the election were all Republicans?

Secondly, who is this security loyal to? Who gets to pick which agents are on the Secret Service, ultimately the sitting President. I will remain nervous about the transition to Biden until the afternoon of January 20, if and when I see video of him entering the White House.

90% of security for the event will be provided by Washington forces, not the SS. There will be thousands on duty and nowhere near every SS person will be on duty.

 

[lobosrul5]

So, those tens of thousands of people celebrating the election were all Republicans?

No of course not. However, don't expect the Trumpers to be massively outnumbered. Also, police have tended to turn the other way when right wing demonstrators show up with rifles, but not for anyone else. That said, DC is a rather democrat friendly town, and they will form the outer-ring of security.

90% of security for the event will be provided by Washington forces, not the SS. There will be thousands on duty and nowhere near every SS person will be on duty.

You don't think the inauguration is an "all hands on deck" situation for the SS? I'm afraid of a crisis if Trump just won't leave. DC police are not going to storm the white house, aside from lack of jurisdiction, the SS has far better "toys" than they do. If the GOP retains the Senate then the Dems in congress have no real power. What happens then exactly? We're relying on the military to come to the rescue.

If I'm not mistaken, you are in New Zealand, just know that I'm a lot closer to where this is happening... and I'm nervous. We're in unprecedented times. I hear talk from people on the right, like personally, in my life from people I know. I hope its just a bunch of BS hot air, and it PROBABLY is. But again, I'm nervous.

 

[eerok]

I'm afraid of a crisis if Trump just won't leave. DC police are not going to storm the white house, aside from lack of jurisdiction, the SS has far better "toys" than they do. If the GOP retains the Senate then the Dems in congress have no real power. What happens then exactly? We're relying on the military to come to the rescue.

I don't think anything like this could happen. The SS won't protect Trump if he remains in the White House after noon on 20 January 2021, because he will no longer be president. I'm sure they know what their job is, and there's no reason to believe they'd go renegade for Trump.

Also Trump is a physical coward. He'll be gone from the White House when the time comes, most likely before.

 

[lobosrul5]

I don't think anything like this could happen. The SS won't protect Trump if he remains in the White House after noon on 20 January 2021, because he will no longer be president. I'm sure they know what their job is, and there's no reason to believe they'd go renegade for Trump.

Also Trump is a physical coward. He'll be gone from the White House when the time comes, most likely before.

I question how easy it would be for the president to put in uber-loyal supporters into the SS? I'm not entirely sure. I do think that maybe, even in Trumps atrophied brain, he'll realize pulling such a stunt might actually result in negative consequences to him.