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Cont: 2020 Presidential Election part 3

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Trump Tweets

We withdrew because we won!
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Bloomberg
@business
NEW: The Trump campaign is seeking to withdraw its Michigan election lawsuit, saying the litigation achieved its goal of derailing the certification of election results in Detroit and surrounding Wayne County https://trib.al/swlw8Hv
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

We withdrew because we won!
Quote Tweet
Bloomberg
@business
NEW: The Trump campaign is seeking to withdraw its Michigan election lawsuit, saying the litigation achieved its goal of derailing the certification of election results in Detroit and surrounding Wayne County https://trib.al/swlw8Hv
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The man lives in a different world. The litigation had no effect.

It didn't derail certification. The local Board of Elections certified the results.

That they rescinded them later after the deadline is immaterial and either way, the litigation and certification are not connected you moron.
 
dirtywick said:
there's a reason that I said mainstream media and not mainstream news

when i say the mainstream media is putting out conspiracy theories, you guys are explaining the difference between mainstream media and Fox News like it matters to the tens of millions of viewers who use this is a primary source of information.

fine then, i guess technically fox news can switch from entertainment to news as they battle libel claims in court. i don't think that matters much in millions of people's homes
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It doesn't matter in court, either. There's no bright line between news and entertainment and I would not want there to be. But when Trump et al. talk about "the mainstream media" they conveniently (well, sometimes) treat Fox News as an exception. Trump has been ragging on Fox lately which is great. IMO the GOP is ripe for some schism based on reality-based Republicans vs. the Trump cult.

There's a divide of sorts at Fox News, between anchors and pundits, which Trump has alluded to.
 
acbytesla said:
I just read a few articles that shows just how big a "Hail Mary" this is. The Trump team has no legal cases in Michigan at this point. They either lost them all or dropped them. They now are focused on delaying certification and getting the state legislature to pick the electors. Something the GOP leaders in Michigan have said they won't do. And yet both these leaders have accepted meetings at the White House.

They have to get not only these 2 individuals to flip on democracy but a majority of Republicans in their legislature to flip on democracy but get 2 other states to do so as well.
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More like a Hail Satan Pass, then.
 
acbytesla said:
The man lives in a different world. The litigation had no effect.

It didn't derail certification. The local Board of Elections certified the results.

That they rescinded them later after the deadline is immaterial and either way, the litigation and certification are not connected you moron.
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I was interested in this bit from the Detroit Free Press:

But in a new filing Thursday, campaign attorney Thor Hearne states the campaign decided not to pursue the lawsuit because two members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers do not want to certify the county's election results.

"The Wayne County board of county canvassers met and declined to certify the results of the presidential election," the three-sentence filing states.
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I'm not at all sure this is even true. It did certify the results; the two Republicans later filed affidavits. One says she was bullied and one said he voted to certify on the condition that some kind of security audit was completed. But I don't think the board as a whole met after that.

It wouldn't astonish to find that the Trump campaign managed to tell a lie in a three-sentence court filing. I'm not sure that actually happened, but it must irritate judges when the simplest allegations have to be fact-checked because either the lawyers are massively dishonest or they don't understand some basic things about litigation, like don't put lies into lawsuits. "Technically" I guess it isn't a lie; at one point the board refused to certify, but it is certainly a lie of omission.

That reminds me of a Trump supporter's mention here of a "Sept. 12" White House memo that failed to mention it was from Sept. 12, 2018. It's a dishonest tactic. It seems to me that such general smarminess is more common in right-wing vs. left-wing politics. But I could be wrong.
 
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I got a call today from an organization trying to get my state's certification moved up to get it out of the way faster. I was given the name of the GOP speaker of the state House. Presumably moving the certification up would require a special session of the Legislature in order to pass an emergency statute. I don't really approve; I want it done by the book but I was encouraged that there was apparently a community effort to fight back on certification controversies. I don't know if the House speaker is a reasonable Republican - they do exist - or a member of Trump's Kool-Aid Kult.

I also would like to see a concerted effort from voters to find out if their absentee ballots were counted, or if someone who didn't cast a ballot find that one was cast in their name, like the lady in Nevada contended. Actually that info might be public record, just not the way the person voted. But I'd like to see that message come directly from voters. The GOP is conspiring to deprive them of their civil rights and they have direct standing. At the same time, if some of the ballots are phony I'd like to know that too.
 
Minoosh said:
I was interested in this bit from the Detroit Free Press:

I'm not at all sure this is even true. It did certify the results; the two Republicans later filed affidavits. One says she was bullied and one said he voted to certify on the condition that some kind of security audit was completed. But I don't think the board as a whole met after that.

It wouldn't astonish to find that the Trump campaign managed to tell a lie in a three-sentence court filing. I'm not sure that actually happened, but it must irritate judges when the simplest allegations have to be fact-checked because either the lawyers are massively dishonest or they don't understand some basic things about litigation, like don't put lies into lawsuits. "Technically" I guess it isn't a lie; at one point the board refused to certify, but it is certainly a lie of omission.

That reminds me of a Trump supporter's mention here of a "Sept. 12" White House memo that failed to mention it was from Sept. 12, 2018. It's a dishonest tactic. It seems me such general smarminess is more common in right-wing vs. left-wing politics. But I could be biased.
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As I understand it. The board was deadlocked in the first certification vote. There was a 90 minute public commentary period following. After which the board agreed to certify the vote. Then after this and after the deadline the two submitted the affidavits. The problem is, there is no legal mechanism to rescind certification.

FYI: The State will conduct a statewide audit including that county. But let's be clear, there were discrepancies in Wayne County but those discrepancies might affect 150 votes, if that. A thousand times less than the 150K lead Biden has in Michigan.
 
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acbytesla said:
As I understand it. The board was deadlocked in the first certification vote. There was a 90 minute public commentary period following and after which the board agreed to certify the vote. Then after this and after the deadline the two submitted the affidavits. The problem is, there is no legal mechanism to rescind certification.
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Kind of typical of Republican 'support' for Trump at this point, make a gesture of support, protest loudly, but avoid doing anything that might put them in the firing line.
 
acbytesla said:
As I understand it. The board was deadlocked in the first certification vote. There was a 90 minute public commentary period following. After which the board agreed to certify the vote. Then after this and after the deadline the two submitted the affidavits. The problem is, there is no legal mechanism to rescind certification.

FYI: The State will conduct a statewide audit including that county. But let's be clear, there were discrepancies in Wayne County but those discrepancies might affect 150 votes, if that. A thousand times less than the 150K lead Biden has in Michigan.
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But they could do it in a thousand counties in Michigan and then you could see a difference!
 
Judge tosses AZ GOP suit about how an audit is conducted (by vote center instead of by precinct) in Maricopa County. The remedy sought was to delay certification.

In his ruling, Judge John Hannah invited the Secretary of State's Office to seek payment for attorney's fees from the Arizona Republican Party, citing a state law that allows for such awards when a party brings a claim "without substantial justification" or "solely or primarily for delay or harassment."
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Dr. Keith said:
But they could do it in a thousand counties in Michigan and then you could see a difference!
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They could.
;)

Wait a minute. Where are they going to get the additional 917 counties?

Must be Republican Math. Which I understand is something like Republican Science. You know. Untethered to facts and evidence.

This all of course reminds me of the challenges of New Math. If you're not familiar with New Math, I've included a little video teaching this subject.
 
Ambrosia said:
He'll soon run out power and influence and he is already out of money.
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I’ve read that Deutsche Bank has lost patience with him and is attempting to sell off his debt. If so, foreclosure on some or all of his properties may be in the offing.

Sure, he’ll try to delay, delay, delay. And may succeed. But it will be fun to watch, regardless.
 
erwinl said:
The issue is, that a political leader of one of the main parties is seriously talking about a coup.
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Yep and he's incredibly incompetent as are his latest crew of bungling idiots.

erwinl said:
And instead of the reaction in that party being something like 'Who do you think you are?!', the reaction is more of 'ah, it's just him being him'.
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I'm not sure who you are referring to.

Some people have been outraged. Biden is playing it as 'hey I'm going to be POTUS and Trump is an embarrassment'. That is the right way to play it.

I believe some people felt McConnell was just humoring Trump. I have no idea what he was doing.

Today the majority of the larger news networks have increased calling Trump's efforts essentially pathetic: Trump's attempts to change state electors is a fail. There's nothing left. Only Fox has deviated slightly.

erwinl said:
Trump doesn't work in a vacuum, like you seem to pretend he does, but is part of something bigger.
And that bigger part, the party, does seem to test the waters to see whether this, the coup, is doable. At least they're more than prepared to let Trump test the waters, instead of going out against the concept of a coup.
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Waters were tested. They failed. I'm right to move on.

As for the 'bigger thing', yep it's a CT that will endure into infinity. Seriously.

In the meantime the EC votes and the election will be certified. And leaks from people around Trump (who is hiding out BTW and not leading his troops into battle) are saying he will accept the outcome once the election is certified, or at least he will give up.

And yes, the CT and all those crazies do need to be addressed. I just believe it is time to divorce the 'OMG he could get away with it' from 'crap, what a mess this is going to be for months or years to come.'
 
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ponderingturtle said:
Yes, just like it counted when the MAGA bomber couldn't build a working bomb. Was his conviction a travesty of justice because of his total incompetence?
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I don't find that analogy even close to what is happening here. Are you suggesting we move in now to lock Trump up?
 
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