Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black man

[CaptainHowdy]

In the context of the US, African involvement in the slave trade is a blame-game red herring. Africans didn't do slavery the same way

So there's the good way to do slavery and the bad way to do slavery and we did it the bad way?

...and had no idea of the depths of depravity the Europeans would get up to

Yes, I'm sure that the methods Africans used to break people's will to resist while marching them hundreds of miles from the interior of Africa to the coast was mostly humane.

and in America, we bred slaves.

Letting men and women engage in sexual activity was definitely wrong, considering how easy it is to prevent. If we couldn't stop them from fornicating the least we could have done is terminate the pregnancy or simply toss the baby onto the bonfire after it was born.

Most places in the British Empire that they shipped Africans to, worked them quickly to death.

What do you expect? If I buy a $40,000 automobile I'm not going to try to maintain it. I run it into the ground as quickly as I can. Why would I treat a slave any differently?

Europeans sent Africans to the US, but we took over in the atrocities game from there. Those millions of second, third, fourth generation slaves, have no connection to Africa and all blame for their treatment and how the US legal system has treated American citizens who had too much melanin is all on us.

Of all the Africans who were brought to the New World against their will, the five percent who ended up in British North America (the rest going to the Caribbean or Central/South America) today enjoy a higher standard of living than any other African diaspora population anywhere in the world and anywhere in Africa itself. If life here in the United States is so oppressive, maybe they should consider going back so we don't hurt them any more.

 

[Mumbles]

Social media seems to make a lot of otherwise normal humans turn into rabid hyenas vomiting out obnoxiousness

No, it's just the more obnoxious people being given more spaces to stomp around spewing slurs and other nastiness. The PUMAs were basically unseen aside from that woman that was ranting at the DNC and Lynn Forrester de Rothschild - by 2016 Bernie Stans were showing up in random Facebook/Twitter spaces calling anyone that disagreed with Sanders a ****** or a bitch, which is why Sanders wanted nothing to do with them.

 

[Venom]

Of all the Africans who were brought to the New World against their will, the five percent who ended up in British North America (the rest going to the Caribbean or Central/South America) today enjoy a higher standard of living than any other African diaspora population anywhere in the world and anywhere in Africa itself. If life here in the United States is so oppressive, maybe they should consider going back so we don't hurt them any more.

Ah, so predictable.

If Americans can take pride in a high standard of living and large economy, the Constitution, "muh Freedom" and all that, why can't they recognize the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow? All I always hear is the usual "well you blacks are better off here than elsewhere, so why pretend it's terrible?" The country set a standard for itself and if people don't feel it's lived up to it, they have a right to complain.

 

[rockinkt]

Ah, so predictable.

If Americans can take pride in a high standard of living and large economy, the Constitution, "muh Freedom" and all that, why can't they recognize the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow? All I always hear is the usual "well you blacks are better off here than elsewhere, so why pretend it's terrible?" The country set a standard for itself and if people don't feel it's lived up to it, they have a right to complain.

Complain away. Nothing is stopping anyone from complaining in the US or Canada for that matter.
Whether people recognize that the complaints have merit is another matter.

 

[smartcooky]

In the context of the US, African involvement in the slave trade is a blame-game red herring. Africans didn't do slavery the same way and had no idea of the depths of depravity the Europeans would get up to, and in America, we bred slaves. Most places in the British Empire that they shipped Africans to, worked them quickly to death. Europeans sent Africans to the US, but we took over in the atrocities game from there. Those millions of second, third, fourth generation slaves, have no connection to Africa and all blame for their treatment and how the US legal system has treated American citizens who had too much melanin is all on us.

 

[Lithrael]

Absolutely. Why, as long as there are mass murderers out there, don't lose any sleep over rapes, or even you beating your kids, amirite?

Yeah great zinger there, but no. More like, shoplifting isn’t cool and does harm, for instance, small businesses, but no, it doesn’t keep me awake at night. And I don’t need to see people demanding tougher treatment of those offenders when rapists are getting wrist slaps.

 

[Thermal]

Yeah great zinger there, but no. More like, shoplifting isn’t cool and does harm, for instance, small businesses, but no, it doesn’t keep me awake at night. And I don’t need to see people demanding tougher treatment of those offenders when rapists are getting wrist slaps.

Its not a zinger to point out laziness. You say you can't be bothered to make the small effort to curb irrational thinking because another extreme position exists. Are you rationing rational thinking for some reason?

Racism needs to be dealt with. Encouraging paternal racism and shirking responsibility is counterproductive to that end. So why do it? Why not be more rational...you know...all the time?

Eta: in the time you spent posting about how the topic was not worth opining on in light of more serious problems, you could have lightly opined on the subject of the thread. Instead, you derail that topic. Why?

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah great zinger there, but no. More like, shoplifting isn’t cool and does harm, for instance, small businesses, but no, it doesn’t keep me awake at night. And I don’t need to see people demanding tougher treatment of those offenders when rapists are getting wrist slaps.

There is a law enforcement theory that petty crimes going unchecked eventually leads to more serious crime.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/231027906.pdf

In addition to evidence showing a pattern of continued crime following serious initial offending, survey findings from the Rand Corporation Habitual Criminals Program support the contention that crime severity escalates over time. For example, Joan Petersilia found that "most criminal careers begin with minor misconduct, sometimes even status offences. Self-report studies indicate that the most frequent pattern begins with truancy and incorrigibility, followed first by petty theft and auto theft and then by more serious property crimes". Similarly, according to research using the Cambridge Study in Delinquent Development, "It seemed clear that the average amount stolen [by an individual] increased with age."​

It is an accepted and well known fact among criminologists that almost all major criminals such as serial rapists and serial murderers, and recidivist offenders start out by committing misdemeanours and petty crimes such as shoplifting, and the fact that they do not get caught emboldens them and allows them to progress to more serious crimes as they gain from their criminality and learn not to get caught.

Joseph James DeAngelo Jr, the serial rapist/killer known as the Golden State Killer is a near textbook example of this. Starting out by committing petty crimes such as shoplifting, he progressed to become known as the Visalia Ransacker, breaking in and ransacking houses in the Visalia area of California beginning April 1974, and then progressed to his first murder 18 months later.

The upshot of this theory is the idea that if you put the resources in to hammering small crime such as minor burglaries, the eventual payoff is that you end up with less serious crime further down the line because you have blocked the criminal path early.

 

[Distracted1]

There is a law enforcement theory that petty crimes going unchecked eventually leads to more serious crime.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/231027906.pdf

In addition to evidence showing a pattern of continued crime following serious initial offending, survey findings from the Rand Corporation Habitual Criminals Program support the contention that crime severity escalates over time. For example, Joan Petersilia found that "most criminal careers begin with minor misconduct, sometimes even status offences. Self-report studies indicate that the most frequent pattern begins with truancy and incorrigibility, followed first by petty theft and auto theft and then by more serious property crimes". Similarly, according to research using the Cambridge Study in Delinquent Development, "It seemed clear that the average amount stolen [by an individual] increased with age."​

It is an accepted and well known fact among criminologists that almost all major criminals such as serial rapists and serial murderers, and recidivist offenders start out by committing misdemeanours and petty crimes such as shoplifting, and the fact that they do not get caught emboldens them and allows them to progress to more serious crimes as they gain from their criminality and learn not to get caught.

Joseph James DeAngelo Jr, the serial rapist/killer known as the Golden State Killer is a near textbook example of this. Starting out by committing petty crimes such as shoplifting, he progressed to become known as the Visalia Ransacker, breaking in and ransacking houses in the Visalia area of California beginning April 1974, and then progressed to his first murder 18 months later.

The upshot of this theory is the idea that if you put the resources in to hammering small crime such as minor burglaries, the eventual payoff is that you end up with less serious crime further down the line because you have blocked the criminal path early.

Seems like "Broken Windows" to me (Which I am in favor of BTW)

 

[Thermal]

Seems like "Broken Windows" to me (Which I am in favor of BTW)

Pretty much. In context of the thread, we should deal with all aspects of racism, rather than favor discussion of the most egregious and accepting the punking out of the OP video host

 

[Mumbles]

There is a law enforcement theory that petty crimes going unchecked eventually leads to more serious crime.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/231027906.pdf

In addition to evidence showing a pattern of continued crime following serious initial offending, survey findings from the Rand Corporation Habitual Criminals Program support the contention that crime severity escalates over time. For example, Joan Petersilia found that "most criminal careers begin with minor misconduct, sometimes even status offences. Self-report studies indicate that the most frequent pattern begins with truancy and incorrigibility, followed first by petty theft and auto theft and then by more serious property crimes". Similarly, according to research using the Cambridge Study in Delinquent Development, "It seemed clear that the average amount stolen [by an individual] increased with age."​

It is an accepted and well known fact among criminologists that almost all major criminals such as serial rapists and serial murderers, and recidivist offenders start out by committing misdemeanours and petty crimes such as shoplifting, and the fact that they do not get caught emboldens them and allows them to progress to more serious crimes as they gain from their criminality and learn not to get caught.

Joseph James DeAngelo Jr, the serial rapist/killer known as the Golden State Killer is a near textbook example of this. Starting out by committing petty crimes such as shoplifting, he progressed to become known as the Visalia Ransacker, breaking in and ransacking houses in the Visalia area of California beginning April 1974, and then progressed to his first murder 18 months later.

The upshot of this theory is the idea that if you put the resources in to hammering small crime such as minor burglaries, the eventual payoff is that you end up with less serious crime further down the line because you have blocked the criminal path early.

THis is often applied as the debunked when misapplied "Broken Windows" theory - a neighborhood where petty crime is allowed will inevitably turn people into rapists and murderers. Instead, it leads to nothing but mistrust as is often applied, mostly because it steers police into wild overreactions to minor issues. Imagine, say, Eric Garner being ignored by police for standing outside, rather than being confronted and choked out, or Ferguson PD, rather than immediately driving around in MRAPs, pointing high-powered rifles at everyone, instituting absurd rules against standing around, and the like, instead...letting people go about their business.

(Although, as I recall, taking care of *actual* broken windows - and other signs of burned out or obviously dilapidated buildings - does help somewhat, but the role of policing in this is limited at best - and in areas where SWAT raids are too common, have the opposite effect. It can be difficult to recover after the police bash in a door frame, toss explosives through the windows, shoot the dogs, set fire to the couch, and tear apart the remaining furniture, after all.)

Also, something of a logical fallacy there - regardless of how many serial killers start as shoplifters, I find it unlikely that most shoplifters become serial killers, even if not caught.

 

[Lithrael]

Its not a zinger to point out laziness. You say you can't be bothered to make the small effort to curb irrational thinking because another extreme position exists. Are you rationing rational thinking for some reason?

I think you're putting words in my mouth there. Damn, dude. I even said it was a problem. I just said it didn't actively worry me. Whose irrational thinking am I supposed to be curbing, and how? Are you suggesting I go scold wokescolds on the internet? Do you think it'll do any good for me to find this guy's video and say it sure looks like he's chosen a weird hill to die on as far as the metaphors inspired by running into kids with headphones on?

Racism needs to be dealt with. Encouraging paternal racism and shirking responsibility is counterproductive to that end. So why do it? Why not be more rational...you know...all the time?

When the hell did I encourage paternal racism? Is saying that I don't lose sleep over people posting overwoke opinions, 'shirking reponsibility?' I don't know what you're talking about.

Eta: in the time you spent posting about how the topic was not worth opining on in light of more serious problems, you could have lightly opined on the subject of the thread. Instead, you derail that topic. Why?

Why? Because I like to post on the forum sometimes, replying to whatever caught my eye. I didn't have any thoughts on the main thread subject that weren't already covered by other posters, and I didn't watch the video. But fine, I'll stop posting, since I'm not that interested in the actual thread subject.

But I shall opine that you are a party pooper. Please enjoy your righteous rebuttal of my post; I'll read it, and probably feel insulted, but since it'll be off topic I'm pre-shamed out of any further reply.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Ah, so predictable.

If Americans can take pride in a high standard of living and large economy, the Constitution, "muh Freedom" and all that, why can't they recognize the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow? All I always hear is the usual "well you blacks are better off here than elsewhere, so why pretend it's terrible?" The country set a standard for itself and if people don't feel it's lived up to it, they have a right to complain.

Ah yes, the old 'black people can't succeed because White people won't let them' argument. It's funny how black people end up at the bottom of the socioeconomic scale in every country where they have been welcomed, even in places where there's no legacy of slavery or Jim Crow. I wonder why that is?

The bicycle story in the first episode is an excellent metaphor for race relations and an insight into black thought processes. Here you have a black guy who is creating a problem. He knows he is creating a problem, he can stop creating a problem but he doesn't want to stop creating the problem. He just wants to keep doing what he is doing and expects somebody else to take action to prevent his behavior from causing a problem. When they don't, he complains about the other person for being the problem.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

...

... He knows he is creating a problem, he can stop creating a problem but he doesn't want to stop creating the problem. He just wants to keep doing what he is doing and expects somebody else to take action to prevent his behavior from causing a problem. When they don't, he complains about the other person for being the problem.

why did you have to bring Trump into this?

 

[Thermal]

I think you're putting words in my mouth there. Damn, dude. I even said it was a problem. I just said it didn't actively worry me. Whose irrational thinking am I supposed to be curbing, and how? Are you suggesting I go scold wokescolds on the internet? Do you think it'll do any good for me to find this guy's video and say it sure looks like he's chosen a weird hill to die on as far as the metaphors inspired by running into kids with headphones on?



When the hell did I encourage paternal racism? Is saying that I don't lose sleep over people posting overwoke opinions, 'shirking reponsibility?' I don't know what you're talking about.



Why? Because I like to post on the forum sometimes, replying to whatever caught my eye. I didn't have any thoughts on the main thread subject that weren't already covered by other posters, and I didn't watch the video. But fine, I'll stop posting, since I'm not that interested in the actual thread subject.

But I shall opine that you are a party pooper. Please enjoy your righteous rebuttal of my post; I'll read it, and probably feel insulted, but since it'll be off topic I'm pre-shamed out of any further reply.

Not sure why you think I was being aggressive. Apologies if it seemed so.

The topic here is purportedly having Uncomfortable Conversations about race. I vote we do just that, and not dismiss what many here have pointed out is some pretty obnoxious entitlement on Acho's part as nothing to worry about. His entitlement to be violent and blame others for it, as well as the second video with the woman claiming she is entitled to burn stores to the ground (and that is also someone else's fault) seems like a pretty damned good Uncomfortable Conversation about racial strife and it's motivations.

 

[Emily's Cat]

A real uncomfortable conversation with a black man is me, my spouse, my mom, and our neighbors (all white) playing Cards Against Humanity with my black step-dad, and him playing the most racist cards in the batch... and soundly whooping our asses.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Any conversation with a black man can be uncomfortable if you set the thermostat too high.

 

[Thermal]

Any conversation with a black man can be uncomfortable if you set the thermostat too high.

Or have either of you wearing a MAGA hat.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Or have either of you wearing a MAGA hat.

Unless you both are.

 

[angrysoba]

Unless you both are.

Unless one of the two is wearing it ironically.