"Quagmire" morphs into "A Very Sucessful Effort"

[Tony]

Usualy one must attend a bowling alley to meet someone of your intelligence.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[rikzilla]

Translastion from Rik-speak to English

"I started a thread full full of inflammatory accusations and charcater assasinations, but then the evil liberals began objecting to my slanders. Only right-wingers are allowed to throw out straw men and ad-homs. Lefties are supposed to just sit there and take it. Everyone knows that."

Must I add another bullet-point to the list? There is already way too much straw you know...it's becoming a fire hazard. Besides, you have already added so much to that list that I think you should sit down and let others participate.

By the way, you make quite a leap in assuming that everyone who disagrees with your characterizations is a Democrat.

Oh I forgot to mention the jihadis and communists...I'm sure we have a few of those here as well. I did not mention them because I was attempting to cast you all as "loyal oppositon" ...I guess I'll have to ammend that kind assumption.
-z

 

[Tony]

By the way, you make quite a leap in assuming that everyone who disagrees with your characterizations is a Democrat.

What can you expect from someone who thinks ignorance and military worship is a virtue?

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Or the Left.

It's the Republican Party that has disappeared. It's painfully obvious now that the neocons are not Conservatives as much as they are the other side of the Statist coin shared with the Liberals. The neocons aren't against big government -- they merely disagree with the Left on what the purpose of big government should be.

That too.

I consider myself an almost but not quite libertarian and I belong to no party whatsoever. Nonetheless, I agree with your comment 100% Both sides want to bend you over. To say that one side is more benevolent about their intentions is either mistaken or a lie.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Oh I forgot to mention the jihadis and communists...I'm sure we have a few of those here as well. I did not mention them because I was attempting to cast you all as "loyal oppositon" ...I guess I'll have to ammend that kind assumption.
-z

Ah so everyone who disagrees with you is either a Democrat, a Jihadi or a Communist. Hmmmmm.

Talk about well-poisoning......

 

[Libertarian]

That was never a one legged stool in the first place. I can easily find justification in the form of 26,000,000 persons freed from tyranny and now voting in the first real election in the long, long history of the country. What once was a tyrant's property is now a free nation. That's worth celebrating...isn't it?


People celebrating the spectacle of 26 MILLION people joining the "free" world makes you sick?? You must have felt awfully well watching the Tiannenmen Square massacre on tv then....


??? Pillory...is that you?

-z

I'd be a little more optimistic about Iraq's future if this revolution had come from within. A miniumum of 30,000 Iraqis are dead along with our 2000 plus Americans in order to establish a...... tiny green zone?

But you have answered my question regarding what we've learned about nation building in the last half century: NOTHING.

 

[Tony]

Ah so everyone who disagrees with you is either a Democrat, a Jihadi or a Communist. Hmmmmm.

Talk about well-poisoning......

And what the hell is "loyal opposition"? What, I'm suppose to stay loyal to a dumb-a$$ president because...? Why?

I'm suppose to remain loyal to a corrupt government because...? Why?

I'm loyal to the Bill of Right the American ideas of freedom, human rights, and accountable government. If the government wants my loyalty it has to earn it. The morons screeming about "loyal opposition" in reality constitute disloyal support.

 

[rikzilla]

Well, I'm a bit to the right side of moderate, and he treats me like a leftie, i.e. he treats me as though I'm not even human...

Eh?? Look if I see you at TAM I'l buy you a beer. See? I never buy non-humans beers. (Of course it will have to be a cheap domestic...I'm saving the good stuff for Mephisto)

I think he goes quite a bit farther than lefties, Ny. If you're not with him or to the right of him, it's "love it or leave it".

• 
  Demonization by way of calmuny!!

(sounds better than liar, liar eh?) A new bullet point! Cool!

I wonder what he thinks about Hammy's "alien and sedition" comment. Does he also think that it's proper to jail people for not accepting the lies made by the present administration?

Hammy gets a bit carried away sometimes but he means well. Now, point me in the direction of Bush's "Lewinsky moment" and I will be in agreement with you jj. See; you won't because you can't. And anything less is really just baseless assumption, wouldn't you agree?

As to Hammy, well, he seems to be unable to stop conflating opposition to the start of the war with support for troops. I want the war over because I support the troops, duh, not because I dont' support the troops.

That's because you have no idea what the troops want, nor do you seem to care. If you cared to know their minds you could read MilBlogs till your eyes crossed. You might even be able to cherry-pick your faves...but sooner or later it might sink in to your brain that the troops actually approve of the job they are doing so very well over there. Maybe.

Now, of course, we're in deep and we have an ethical obligation to get things back on track. I sure hope that works.

Well there's a nice sentiment. Just the kind of thing I was hoping to see. Thanks jj for your display of kindness, humanity, and common sense. Just for that I'll buy you a Henninger export after all!

I do hope others here can find it in their hearts to do the same. It's so sad to see a JREF poster actualy say they were sickened by the American celebration of Iraq's new democracy.

-z

 

[rikzilla]

And what the hell is "loyal opposition"? What, I'm suppose to stay loyal to a dumb-a$$ president because...? Why?

I'm suppose to remain loyal to a corrupt government because...? Why?

I'm loyal to the Bill of Right the American ideas of freedom, human rights, and accountable government. If the government wants my loyalty it has to earn it. The morons screeming about "loyal opposition" in reality constitute disloyal support.

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[Tony]

What color is the sky in your world?

Your fundamentalism is showing.

 

[rikzilla]

Your fundamentalism is showing.

I'm ignoring you now Tony. I'm doing it for the same reason I ignore American and Demon.

Debate is a duel of intelligence and on moral grounds I refuse to do battle with an unarmed man.

-Ta

 

[Tony]

I'm ignoring you now Tony.

Does that mean I no longer have to tolerate your ignorance? I wish my fellow posters were as lucky as me.

Debate is a duel of intelligence and on moral grounds I refuse to do battle with an unarmed man.

Translation: When challenged and derided for my ignorance and hypocrisy, I retreat in a fit of panic. Fundamentalists are like that rik, you fit the stereotype well.

 

[hammegk]

Well, I'm a bit to the right side of moderate

Another lie.

I wonder what he thinks about Hammy's "alien and sedition" comment.

And?

Does he also think that it's proper to jail people for not accepting the lies made by the present administration?

A lie again.

As to Hammy, well, he seems to be unable to stop conflating opposition to the start of the war with support for troops. I want the war over because I support the troops, duh, not because I dont' support the troops.

Then support them. Refighting battles you lost at home isn't doing it, and naming others as liars doesn't make that so either.

Now, of course, we're in deep and we have an ethical obligation to get things back on track. I sure hope that works.

And others suggest we're reasonably on-track, and it would be better if you pretend you are citizen of the US -- with troops at war -- rather than continuing words and actions that support the enemy rather than your own sorry @ss.

 

[jj]

And others suggest we're reasonably on-track, and it would be better if you pretend you are citizen of the US -- with troops at war -- rather than continuing words and actions that support the enemy rather than your own sorry @ss.

In other words, political discussion is out, just follow the masters and salute when they tell you to.

Sheeesh! You really are out there, fella.

 

[Melendwyr]

Does that mean I no longer have to tolerate your ignorance? I wish my fellow posters were as lucky as me.

You now have an excuse to expose the flaws in rikilla's arguments without being subject to his inane defenses. The rest of us have to respond to his idiocy to appear fair and reasonable.

You don't know how good you've got it.

 

[rikzilla]

You now have an excuse to expose the flaws in rikilla's arguments without being subject to his inane defenses. The rest of us have to respond to his idiocy to appear fair and reasonable.

You don't know how good you've got it.

"The rest of us" (you) have responded with fallacy, accusation, and evasion. With two notable exceptions the OP has not been reasonably addressed. The responses generated by this thread make my point even better than the OP does.

The Democratic party under it's current leadership is not only bereft of better ideas on Iraq and the WOT...it's betting it's political future on American defeat in Iraq.

"The idea that we are going to win this war is an idea that unfortunately is just plain wrong."

This is the head of the DNC not some renegade from the left coast. He keeps this up and Hillary's going to have to run as an independent.

-z

 

[fishbob]

I had thought in starting this thread that there would be some fight left in the left. Some area that could be defended...and I actually looked forward to being shown it. It's horrifying really...the depths to which the dems have sunk...and I am from a long, long line of southern democrats.That party is gone. What is left is simply a lump of unrecognizable weakness and distortion. -z

Bull$$$$.

The real lumps of unrecognizable stuff are your rants in lieu of content.

Failure to respond to post 66 noted.

 

[rikzilla]

Bull$$$$.

The real lumps of unrecognizable stuff are your rants in lieu of content.

Failure to respond to post 66 noted.

The OP was a positive assertion and included evidence in support of it. Post #66 was merely you telling me to support my contention that the Dems had hitched their political fortunes to failure and defeat in Iraq. Since I did that with my OP your #66 post was just more evasion of the issue.

Look, if you don't think you can successfully debate me on this why don't you just stop posting in this thread. It's not as if I'm following you from thread to thread and rubbing your face in this. Just go...I'm sure that with time people will forget how lame your defense of the moonbat-in-charge of the DNC was.

-z

 

[ImaginalDisc]

And others suggest we're reasonably on-track, and it would be better if you pretend you are citizen of the US -- with troops at war -- rather than continuing words and actions that support the enemy rather than your own sorry @ss.

Dissent is not treason, it is often the position of the lonely patriot.

Look, if you don't think you can successfully debate me on this why don't you just stop posting in this thread. It's not as if I'm following you from thread to thread and rubbing your face in this. Just go...I'm sure that with time people will forget how lame your defense of the moonbat-in-charge of the DNC was.

-z

Firstly, reasonable politcal debate is not a game of king-of-the-hill. Being the last man standing doesn't make you right.

Secondly, being a critic of the war, and the U.S. conduct in this war do not, in either case, mean that the critic is a Democrat. I think you'd be surprised how many Republicans aren't so sure about the offical party line.

Edit: Quoted from rikzilla's sig "CENSORSHIP IS ANTI-AMERICAN!". I agree.

Edited again, for spelling.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Secondly, being a critic of the war, and the U.S. conduct in this war do not, in either case, mean that the critic is a Democrat.

No according to Rik, a critic of the war could also be a Communist or a Jihadi.