Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

[Dave Rogers]

More to the point. The potential for fraud exists where it should not.

Yes, it's quite worrying that the Trump administration's attempts to hinder the USPS from contributing to a fair and efficient postal ballot led to this vulnerability in the system, even though it looks like the Republican Party was too incompetent to exploit it.

Dave

 

[BobTheCoward]

Bob if it's not good enough for Ebay to miss a delivery confirmation scan it's not good enough for me. You may choose to accept someone's word but I choose to accept standard security protocol and procedure. Trust is required your way, there is no need for trust my way.

You claimed the following

The USPS does not bypass security protocol. especially on something where security is as important as an election ballot.

I pointed out they did. What the heck are you talking about in this post of yours? I expressed no opinion on what the USPS chose to do.


ETA: you don't accept their word that they pulled them out and not scanned them?

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Maybe so. But there is no credible evidence of any fraud in this election that may have affected more than a handful of ballots. Potential for fraud is not evidence for fraud. Now is it?

Election is over. Trump lost by almost 6 million votes. Time to move on and come together as patriotic Americans.

I agree, at the moment there is no evidence of large scale fraud. Only the odd dead person voting now and again and that always happens.

I will accept the election results the moment they're certified. That's how we do it.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I agree, at the moment there is no evidence of large scale fraud. Only the odd dead person voting now and again and that always happens.

Strangely, all the dead voters anyone's anyone's tried to contact seem to have got better...

Dave

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

You claimed the following



I pointed out they did. What the heck are you talking about in this post of yours? I expressed no opinion on what the USPS chose to do.


ETA: you don't accept their word that they pulled them out and not scanned them?

I accept the ballots were not scanned. I accept the ballots may have bypassed some of the system's internal processing. I do not accept that they were all delivered even if they pinky swear because the delivery was not confirmed.

 

[Myriad]

Bob if it's not good enough for Ebay to miss a delivery confirmation scan it's not good enough for me. You may choose to accept someone's word but I choose to accept standard security protocol and procedure. Trust is required your way, there is no need for trust my way.

Would you prefer ballots not being delivered in time to be usable, to voters who were entitled to them, or ballots being delivered in time to be usable, without delivery confirmation scans?

Given that meddling in post office procedures by the White House intentionally made that choice necessary in an attempt to disenfranchise voters, is it your wish that that attempt had succeeded in order to achieve more complete record of delivery scans instead?

What's that thing conservatives like to say about people who prefer security over liberty?

 

[Darat]

More to the point. The potential for fraud exists where it should not.

Where?

 

[Paul2]

I agree, at the moment there is no evidence of large scale fraud. Only the odd dead person voting now and again and that always happens.

I will accept the election results the moment they're certified. That's how we do it.

1. Is that how you did it in past elections? Even unofficial acceptance?

2. Normally, everyone understands that the vote totals being reported are accurate enough to determine who won.

 

[acbytesla]

I agree, at the moment there is no evidence of large scale fraud. Only the odd dead person voting now and again and that always happens.

I will accept the election results the moment they're certified. That's how we do it.

That hasn't been how we do it for almost a century.

At the moment? Are you ******* serious?

A dozen suits the Trump campaign alleged fraud without evidence of any. Republican officials in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Georgia have all stated there is no evidence of any fraud. 16 US attorneys tasked to monitor the election for fraud and irregularities wrote in a letter yesterday they found no evidence of fraud. The CISA and Trump's Director of Homeland Security says there was no fraud and that this election was the most secure in US history. Election officials nationwide have stated there was no fraud. And here you are equivocating.

You're just desperately hoping that a Trump Republican will steal the election for Trump by refusing to certify.

I challenge you to find a precedence for this absurdity.

 

[Garrison]

More to the point. The potential for fraud exists where it should not.

There's the potential your next door neighbour could decide to murder you tomorrow, should we lock them up on the off chance?

If there is zero evidence for systematic voter fraud there is zero reason to either discount votes or make it harder for people to vote.

So you got any actual evidence or just endless conjecture?

 

[dirtywick]

This is hilarious btw

 

[surrogate]

Maybe we should let Ebay run the next election to placate ChrisBFRPKY.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I accept the ballots were not scanned. I accept the ballots may have bypassed some of the system's internal processing. I do not accept that they were all delivered even if they pinky swear because the delivery was not confirmed.

Then we have to decide what constitutes an issue.

It is understood that a mail in ballot has lower odds of being counted than when you stand inside a voting booth. Some of that is limitations by USPS. But parties advocate mail in because a person is more likely to put a ballot in the mail than show up to the voting booth.

To the extent this is aligned with those expectations, I don't know the correct amount of concern.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Would you prefer ballots not being delivered in time to be usable, to voters who were entitled to them, or ballots being delivered in time to be usable, without delivery confirmation scans?

Given that meddling in post office procedures by the White House intentionally made that choice necessary in an attempt to disenfranchise voters, is it your wish that that attempt had succeeded in order to achieve more complete record of delivery scans instead?

What's that thing conservatives like to say about people who prefer security over liberty?

I prefer security protocols not be bypassed.

Where?

Unverifiable ballot delivery. There is no proof every ballot was delivered.

1. Is that how you did it in past elections? Even unofficial acceptance?

2. Normally, everyone understands that the vote totals being reported are accurate enough to determine who won.

Yes.

I would suggest you look into the 2000 election between Bush/Gore. Specifically the Florida recount.

That hasn't been how we do it for almost a century.

You're just desperately hoping that a Trump Republican will steal the election for Trump by refusing to certify.

I challenge you to find a precedence for this absurdity.

You must be kidding. This is exactly how we do elections. Any contested results are recounted and once the recounts are complete the election is certified. Then comes the EC to cast their votes in December to elect the next President. How do you think we elect a President? CNN?

There's the potential your next door neighbour could decide to murder you tomorrow, should we lock them up on the off chance?

If there is zero evidence for systematic voter fraud there is zero reason to either discount votes or make it harder for people to vote.

So you got any actual evidence or just endless conjecture?

You're probably right, he's a Biden supporter.

If it ain't broke don't fix it? OK. Faith is a good thing to have but I prefer security and verification. That's just me.

While I agree that my posted opinions about what could be done with 300K missing ballots is conjecture, the fact that the ballots were not scanned as confirmed delivery is not.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I prefer security protocols not be bypassed.
t.

Life involves tradeoffs. Given the options available when the decision was made, what would you have done?

 

[phiwum]

Well, I do agree that fraud was probably committed by the Trump campaign. But, thankfully, it didn't work, although it did act to make the election seem closer than it really was.

Er, what kind of fraud are you talking about? And what is the reason you think it happened?

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Life involves tradeoffs. Given the options available when the decision was made, what would you have done?

Bob if Chris B was running the Postal service you can rest assured your ballot would have been scanned and confirmed when delivered.

There is no valid reason to bypass a security protocol. That's not acceptable.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Bob if Chris B was running the Postal service you can rest assured your ballot would have been scanned and confirmed when delivered.

There is no valid reason to bypass a security protocol. That's not acceptable.

"More ballots would have gone undelivered before the election than will be lost in the process" seems like a pretty good reason.

 

[wareyin]

I prefer security protocols not be bypassed.

Wait, you think a delivery scan is security? You've never had an Amazon package say it was delivered when it wasn't on your porch?

Unverifiable ballot delivery. There is no proof every ballot was delivered.

Yes there is. Every person who mailed in a ballot can go online to the official election website of their state and check. Every single ballot that was delivered will be listed as delivered.

While I agree that my posted opinions about what could be done with 300K missing ballots is conjecture, the fact that the ballots were not scanned as confirmed delivery is not.

You seem to think the final step in a mail in ballot process is the USPS delivering it. It's not.

 

[phiwum]

Bob if Chris B was running the Postal service you can rest assured your ballot would have been scanned and confirmed when delivered.

There is no valid reason to bypass a security protocol. That's not acceptable.

The USPS said that they skipped a step in order to ensure that the ballots arrived on time. If they are correct that this was necessary, then the choice was between allowing some ballots to go unscanned or allowing some ballots to go undelivered until it was too late.

I'd rather accept the former. Clearly, you prefer the latter.