Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

[Stacyhs]

I see. Yes I agree that our elections have been more secure in the past. I trust the process yet I don't like having improprieties or even the appearance of within that process. This election is different than the previous. When we start sending out mail in ballots en mass it leads to more dishonesty and more cheating.

That is an allegation not supported by any evidence. OR has voted solely by mail since 1998 with virtually no dishonesty or cheating at all:

Oregon has mailed out millions of ballots over the past three decades, with about a dozen cases of actual fraud. Most problems were unintentional errors involving signing the wrong mailing envelope or assuming that a voter could sign the mailing envelope for a family member.

If OR can do it, there is no reason the rest of the country cannot.

Although there will always be some fraud in every election it has been on a small scale and the possibility for large scale cheating was low until the 2020 election.

Again, an allegation not supported by evidence. Trump and his lawyers have failed to prove a single allegation of large scale cheating despite having the entire resources of the government behind him.

In conjunction to large scale mass ballots being sent out the election rules were changed last minute to ease even the most basic security measures like the signature verification on those ballots in some states.

False. All states require signature verification:

According to the report, at least 31 states and the District of Columbia require election officials to compare the signature on a mail ballot’s security envelope with a signature on file as part of their verification processes. Twelve others, including the swing states of North Carolina and Wisconsin, require voters to complete their ballots in front of a witness or a notary who must also sign.

Bottom line is we can't have either side thinking they were cheated. There's not enough plywood in the World to protect businesses if both sides riot at the same time.

True. Which is why Trump and his sycophantic GOP minions and online supporters need to stop spreading false information about massive voter fraud cheating Trump out of this election. He was beaten fair and square by Biden and he needs to acknowledge it instead of undermining the integrity of our democratic elections.

 

[Stacyhs]

Have you seen Amy McGrath?


https://spectrumnews1.com/ky/lexington/news/2020/11/09/amy-mcgrath-uses-for-leftover-campaign-money

Are you deliberately trying to be more offensive?

 

[Stacyhs]

Collect all ballots, D votes and R votes. Wash R votes and relabel as D votes. Or if the R vote can't be washed and relabelled, destroy it so it doesn't get counted. Or vice versa, it works either way.

And has there been any evidence of this taking place anywhere other than in your mind?

 

[Stacyhs]

I would guess that any similar activity would be better off done in a swing state where it matters. As I said I don't know why the Postal worker put those ballots in the dumpster. That was one example of ballots being dumped. If it could happen in Louisville KY, it could certainly happen in Philly PA or Atlanta GA etc.

This wasn't a case of election fraud. It was a case of a bad postal employee who just didn't want to finish his route.

The dumped mail also included approximately 69 mixed class pieces of flat rate mail, 320 second class pieces of mail, and two national election campaign flyers from a political party in Florida. An analysis of the mail revealed it was from a single route for one scheduled delivery day.

https://www.whas11.com/article/news...ster/417-16d4b8b8-9ad7-48f7-97c9-98caa48bf808

You are really bad at proving election fraud.

 

[Ambrosia]

Meadmaker, Some states like Florida have been won or lost by 537 votes (2000 election). Heck I could do that many myself without any help from anyone. I'm just one guy.

Yes but could you do that without getting caught?

Of course talking about flipping 500 or so votes is meaningless, you need to flip 30000 votes in *just* the right places to change the result, and you'll probably want 50000 to be sure.

1 guy managing to monkey with 500 votes by himself, without getting caught doing so? OK I can give you the benefit of the doubt. It's unlikely but within the realms of possibility.

100 people, all changing 500 votes each, in a very co-ordinated effort, targetting precisely the correct states, all without getting caught?

Not happening in a million years.

 

[Darat]

This wasn't a case of election fraud. It was a case of a bad postal employee who just didn't want to finish his route.





https://www.whas11.com/article/news...ster/417-16d4b8b8-9ad7-48f7-97c9-98caa48bf808



You are really bad at proving election fraud.

Don't forget that one of the cases that have got to court that was given as an example of this thread's topic had the plaintiff lawyer adamantly stating that the case was not about fraud! This seems to be quite a recurrent issue, the cases are not about the topic of the thread. Mistakes are not fraud.

 

[Darat]

Meadmaker, Some states like Florida have been won or lost by 537 votes (2000 election). Heck I could do that many myself without any help from anyone. I'm just one guy.

How, and please explain how in line with the actual state legislation in the state that you claim you could do it in.

 

[Darat]

The question was asked how could it be done. Nothing about having evidence of it. I did not state I had evidence of any of those actions being done. I stated multiple ways they could be done and multiple ways to cheat with a mail in election. I think it's a valid subject within the topic as we will hear more info upcoming pending the hand recounts.



Every method I mentioned is a way to cheat. As far as needing thousands of people I disagree. It would be foolish to risk that many recruits if nothing else loose lips could be a problem.



As I pointed out, the 2000 Florida election was decided with 547 votes. That state determined the election for Bush.



Another way to cheat would be thru a software update hack. Send election officials in charge of voting machines and software an update link by email. Of course one should really call in advance to let them know there is a software update to be done and your company is sending the update via email.

Problem is that you have to explain how it could be done given the world we actually live in. From reading through just a few of the cases of not-fraud many of your suggestions wouldn't work in say PA because they have checks built into the system.

So as I asked above but I'll try to make it more explicit: how in a particular state that is meant to have been subject to election fraud this election could you have committed election fraud to change the result from Trump to Biden?

 

[Darat]

Yeah, I kind of felt the same way. IIRC correctly she was only 23.



But I get why they had no choice but to invalidate it.

I don't. Given the dead can control the property they owned before they died after they died seems strange to me that their (legally made of course) ballot is no longer counted.

 

[Darat]

Absentee ballots ARE mail-in ballots. Claiming otherwise is a false distinction. Again, where is the evidence of major or even minor fraud in the states that have conducted elections by mail for many years? And you might have noted some other recommendations in the commission's report, like universal registration and "increased voter registration efforts." Of course, they also want every voter to present a Real ID picture ID, too, but they want to make ID easier to get. Plenty to talk about for everybody.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_on_Federal_Election_Reform
https://web.archive.org/web/20070620141618/http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/

This point was made by the judge in one of the not-fraud cases linked to in this thread, both sides in the case agreed with the judge that there is no legal difference.

 

[Darat]

The problem with Chris's fanciful way to steal an election ignores that it would require a conspiracy of hundreds maybe thousands to do. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, people will talk. And mail ballots have all kinds of security measures that would trip it up sending a lot of people to prison for a long long time.



As for getting dead people to vote...he should read this.

(Setting aside that many of his "coulds" couldn't happen as there are checks made to ensure they don't happen.)

The major issue he doesn't address is that without clairvoyance you don't know beforehand where you will need to cheat, so you need your teams spread throughout the states you target, which will up the number of people you need to recruit.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Judges should start calling the lawyers out for frivolous lawsuits.

 

[shuttlt]

Not sure if this has yet been posted. The low level contractor for Dominion working at TCF has an affidavit:

https://www.greatlakesjc.org/wp-content/uploads/Supplemental-Brief-Motion-for-TRO-Costantino.pdf

2. I arrived at the TCF Center at approximately 6: 15 AM November 3, 2020 and worked until 4:00 AM November 4, 2020. I went home to get some sleep, then arrived back at the TCF Center at I 0:00 AM in which I stayed until 1 :45 PM. During this time I witnessed nothing but fraudulent
actions take place.
3. The counters (which were trained very little or not at all), were handed a "batch" (stack of 50) of mail-in ballots in which they would run through the tabulator. The tabulators would get jammed
4-5 times an hour, when they jammed the computer would put out an error that tells the worker the ballot number that was jammed and gives an option to either discard the batch or continue scanning at which the counter should discard the batch, put the issue ballot on top of the batch
and rescan the entire batch. I witnessed countless workers rescanning the batches without discarding them first which resulted in ballots being counted 4-5 times.
4. At approximately midnight I was called over to assist one of the counters with a paper jam and noticed his PC had a number of over 400 ballots scanned- which means one batch was counted over 8 times. This happened countless times while I was at the TCF Center. I confronted my
manager, Nick Ikonornakis saying how big of a problem this was, Nick told me he didn't want to hear that we have a big problem. He told me we are here to do assist with IT work, not to run their election.
5. The adjudication process, from my understanding there's supposed to be a republican and a democrat judging these ballots. I overheard numerous workers talking during shift change in which over 20 machines had two democrats judging the ballots-resulting in an unfair process.
6. Next, I want to describe what went on during shift change, it was a chaotic disaster. It took over two hours for workers to arrive at their "assigned areas", over 30 workers were taken upstairs and told they didn't have a job for them to do. These people were chosen to be counters, in which 6
workers admitted to me that they received absolutely no training at all.
7. The night shift workers were free to come and go as they pleased, they could go out and smoke from the counting room. This is illegal, as there were boxes and stacks of ballots everywhere, anyone could have taken some out or brought some in, and No one was watching them.
8. There was two vans that pulled into the garage of the counting room, one on day shift and one on night shift. These vans were apparently bringing food into the building because they only had enough food for not even 1/3 of the workers. I never saw any food corning out of these vans, coincidently it was announced on the news that Michigan had discovered over 100,000 more
ballots- not even two hours after the last van left.
9. When a worker had a ballot that they either could not read, or it had something spilled on it, they would go to a table that had blank ballots on it and fill it out. They were supposed to be filling them out exactly like the one they had received but this was not the case at all. The workers would also sign the name of the person that the ballot belonged to-which is clearly illegal.
IO. Samuel Challandes and one more young man in his mid-20 were responsible for submitting the numbers into the main computer. They had absolutely no overhead, my manager Nick would assist them with any questions but Nick was on the floor assisting with IT most of the time.
11 . There was a time I overheard Samuel talking to Nick about losing tons of data, they all got on their phones and stepped to the side of the stage. I asked Nick what was going one and he told me it was all taken care of and not to worry about it. I fully believe that this was something very
crucial that they just covered up.
12. I was the only republican working for Dominion Voting, and on the stage there was many terrible comments being made by the city workers and Dominion workers about republicans. I did not give out any indication that I was a republican, I have a family at home and knew I was going to have to walk to my car at the end of my shift. If anyone had an American flag on their shirt or mask, they were automatically deemed to be Trump supporters.

 

[shuttlt]

Also, at p.37 down this document you have exhibit B which is an affidavit from Jessy Jacob:
https://greatlakesjc.org/wp-content/uploads/Complaint-Costantino-FINAL-With-Exhibits.pdf?x44644
I think this may be more complete than the previously posted version of the complaint as I don't recall the exhibits. Jessy is an employee of the city of detroit elections department.

6. I processed absentee ballot packages to be sent to voters while I worked at the election headquarters in September 2020 along with 70-80 other poll workers. I was instructed by my supervisor to adjust the mailing date of these absentee ballot packages to be dated earlier than they were actually sent. The supervisor was making announcements for all workers to
engage in this practice.

8. I directly observed, on a daily basis, City of Detroit election workers and employees coaching and trying to coach voters to vote for Joe Biden and the Democrat party. I witnessed these workers and employees encouraging voters to do a straight Democrat ballot. I witnessed
these election workers and employees going over to the voting booths with voters in order to watch them vote and coach them for whom to vote.
9. During the last two weeks while working at this satellite location, I was specifically instructed by my supervisor not to ask for a driver’s license or any photo I.D. when a person was trying to vote.
10. I observed a large number of people who came to the satellite location to vote in-person, but they had already applied for an absentee ballot. These people were allowed to vote in-person and were not required to return the mailed absentee ballot or sign an affidavit that the voter lost the mailed absentee ballot.
11. Whenever I processed an absentee voter application or in-person registration, I was instructed to input the person’s name, address, and date of birth into the Qualified Voter File (QVF) system.

The remainder of the affidavit isn't OCRed, so I can't copy and paste it. It claims that at the TCF specific instructions were given not to check the absentee ballots for deficiencies or signatures. Also there was an instruction to predate absentee ballots and alter the QVF system to indicate the ballot arrive on time.

 

[shuttlt]

So that's two employees working at running the count at TCF backing up the poll watchers claims.

 

[shuttlt]

(Setting aside that many of his "coulds" couldn't happen as there are checks made to ensure they don't happen.)

The major issue he doesn't address is that without clairvoyance you don't know beforehand where you will need to cheat, so you need your teams spread throughout the states you target, which will up the number of people you need to recruit.

Some forms of malfeasance you need to know, others you don't and you are just helping pad the vote. The claim in 1960 was that results stopped coming in from a some large democrat districts in Illinois until it was clear approximately how many votes would be needed to win and then the required number dropped in big batches all for Kennedy. If the same thing happened in this case, you'd expect to see evidence of large numbers of ballots being held back until the target to win was clear and then big chunks of heavily skewed votes coming in rapidly.

 

[Babbylonian]

It's amazing to me that scumbag Republicans pretend that there is large-scale voter fraud whether they win or lose. All the same speculations were being generated by the same evidence-averse people four years ago, and the same people were on the other side telling them that they were full of ****...and for the last four years no evidence of widespread voter fraud in 2016 was found.

Pathetic.

 

[shuttlt]

Problem is that you have to explain how it could be done given the world we actually live in. From reading through just a few of the cases of not-fraud many of your suggestions wouldn't work in say PA because they have checks built into the system.

Were the checks actually done? Was the correct procedure followed such that the checks were meaningful? We have people claiming to have been instructed not to check ballots for correctness or signature and to alter dates and copying voters signatures. We've got the IT contractor for the counting software saying the proper procedure to load the votes wasn't followed so the same ballots were counted multiple times. A security procedure that isn't followed is not any kind of guarantee of security.

 

[Darat]

Not sure if this has yet been posted. The low level contractor for Dominion working at TCF has an affidavit:

https://www.greatlakesjc.org/wp-content/uploads/Supplemental-Brief-Motion-for-TRO-Costantino.pdf

How did that judge put it "hearsay on hearsay"?

If that is a typical example of the type and quality of affidavits raised by 70 witnesses then it doesn't bode well for any case that is using them as part of their legal argument.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Were the checks actually done? Was the correct procedure followed such that the checks were meaningful? We have people claiming to have been instructed not to check ballots for correctness or signature and to alter dates and copying voters signatures.

And we've got responses in other cases that the checks were actually done by the proper people to do them, but that the watchers were trying to insist they be done at the wrong stage of the process by people neither qualified nor required to do them. All of this could easily be simply due to watchers failing to understand the process they were supposed to scrutinise and trying to take on the role of supervising it rather than observing it.

We've got the IT contractor for the counting software saying the proper procedure to load the votes wasn't followed so the same ballots were counted multiple times.

Let's look at that one, shall we? He says the proper procedure is to re-scan the group of ballots with the problem one at the top. So the proper procedure is to scan the ballots a second time, which means either that it's normal procedure to double count any ballots with a problem anywhere in the batch - which is patently absurd - or that the software checks for repeat scans and rejects duplicates. If it's the latter, which is the only interpretation that makes a lick of sense, then running the same batch through multiple times will simply result in a set of votes being repeatedly overwritten, not multiply counted. Yes, it'll waste the counters' time, but the effect on the number of votes tallied will be a big fat zero.

This one doesn't pass the initial sniff test.

Dave