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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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acbytesla said:
The problem with Chris's fanciful way to steal an election ignores that it would require a conspiracy of hundreds maybe thousands to do. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, people will talk. And mail ballots have all kinds of security measures that would trip it up sending a lot of people to prison for a long long time.

As for getting dead people to vote...he should read this.
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That's some interesting info. 1200 incidents and 143 convictions. That tells me of the people/incidents that were caught only a bit above 8.3% of them resulted in a conviction. That's not a good argument for election security. You have to figure some of those that were caught may have been low watt bulbs.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
1. Sure they'd be filled out. The ballot would have to be checked to see if the vote was cast to your preferred candidate. If it was not the ink would need to be washed and the new candidate selected.
2. Yes https://www.whas11.com/article/news...ster/417-16d4b8b8-9ad7-48f7-97c9-98caa48bf808
3. It'd be helpful to have someone on the inside.
4.+5. Dead people vote in every election.
6. The forger would need a few sample ballots to get the barcode numerical order or series. The bar code is mainly for tracking ballots, not that they will be accepted or rejected based on the code. Especially if the fake ballots are placed in drop boxes, never having been thru the USPS.
7. The risk to poll workers on your team could be minimized by obstructing poll watchers. If they can't see what's going on there is no evidence of foul play.
8. Multiple ballots have been sent to the same address. Who knows what happened in every case?
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1. Are you proposing that the ballots are somehow opened without destroying the envelope to check to make sure it is a vote for the preferred candidate and ones that aren't are then altered by removing the ink? That would be quite ambitious.
2. A postal worker threw away a load of mail that contained 111 ballots among hundreds of other mail pieces. No fraudulent votes cast, just someone who didn't feel like working.
3. Would need to be someone in a fairly high position I would think. I don't think I would risk losing my job and freedom for such a hare brained scheme.
4. As has been pointed out death records are checked. From what I've read, most of the dead people voting are just living people with the same name as the deceased.
6. The barcode/serial number is different than the postal tracking barcode, it doesn't matter if they were mailed or dropped off.
7. Who knows what happened? Obviously not you.

Still would like to know how the fraudsters would know how many ballots were needed. Would suck to forge 8000 ballots only to still lose by 1000.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
As I pointed out, the 2000 Florida election was decided with 547 votes. That state determined the election for Bush.
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You are claiming that since Florida was only won by 537 votes, that it would have been easy to swing the state the other way with a just few people. The problem with that thinking is that you are working backwards from a known result and then assuming a plan to acheive that result, but before the election, when you have to work your fraud, you would have absolutely no idea it would be that close, therefore, you would still need a crew of thousands.

This thinking is somewhat like "affirming the consequent".
 
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ChrisBFRPKY said:
I agree. I think everyone should wait and see what the Georgia hand count looks like before committing themselves one way or the other.

Same goes for Michigan and other states where allegations have been reported. If there were more computer "glitches" that happened statewide or in multiple states it will become apparent during the recount.

This is what happens when you loosen the security within elections.
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There is no evidence that security was loosened. The evidence seems to support that security was quite secure judging by the fact that every fraud lawsuit Trump has brought has been thrown out.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
That's some interesting info. 1200 incidents and 143 convictions. That tells me of the people/incidents that were caught only a bit above 8.3% of them resulted in a conviction. That's not a good argument for election security. You have to figure some of those that were caught may have been low watt bulbs.
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You misunderstand.

...an online database cataloging alleged election fraud cases from the last 20 years, contains 1200 incidents within its database and has identified 204 involving mail ballots, only 143 of which resulted in a criminal conviction.
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Only 143 out of 204 mail ballot incidents resulted in convictions meaning that the other 61 incidents were not proved to be cases of fraud. They were likely unintentional mistakes. Also, notice that the 1200 cases were "alleged" cases of fraud over 20 years. Twelve hundred alleged cases over 20 years wherein HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of votes were cast is pretty damn good. That's actually an excellent argument for election security.
 
Why would the democrats bribe postal workers to throw away mail in ballots when they were the only ones voting by mail?
 
surrogate said:
1. Are you proposing that the ballots are somehow opened without destroying the envelope to check to make sure it is a vote for the preferred candidate and ones that aren't are then altered by removing the ink? That would be quite ambitious.
2. A postal worker threw away a load of mail that contained 111 ballots among hundreds of other mail pieces. No fraudulent votes cast, just someone who didn't feel like working.
3. Would need to be someone in a fairly high position I would think. I don't think I would risk losing my job and freedom for such a hare brained scheme.
4. As has been pointed out death records are checked. From what I've read, most of the dead people voting are just living people with the same name as the deceased.
6. The barcode/serial number is different than the postal tracking barcode, it doesn't matter if they were mailed or dropped off.
7. Who knows what happened? Obviously not you.

Still would like to know how the fraudsters would know how many ballots were needed. Would suck to forge 8000 ballots only to still lose by 1000.
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They couldn't know exactly how many they'd need to swing the election. If it didn't look good for their candidate they'd have to stop counting and bring in more ballots.

smartcooky said:
You are claiming the since Florida was only won by 537 votes, that it would have been easy to swing the state the other way with a just few people. The problem with that thinking is that you are working backwards from a known result and then assuming a plan to acheive that result, but before the election, when you have to work your fraud, you would have absolutely no idea it would be that close, therefore, you would still need a crew of thousands.

This thinking is somewhat like "affirming the consequent".
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As above you wouldn't know how many ballots you needed. One could start with a certain amount based on previous election results and add to that number if needed as above.
Resume said:
After he tucked in his shirt. Nudge-nudge, know what I mean?
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He was tucking in his shirt after "removing a microphone" used during the interview. Doesn't everyone lay back on a bed with their hand down their pants to tuck in a shirt? Obviously if there's no bed or young model available I'm forced to walk around all day with my shirt tails flapping in the breeze.
It's terrible but whadda ya gunna do?
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
He was tucking in his shirt after "removing a microphone" used during the interview. Doesn't everyone lay back on a bed with their hand down their pants to tuck in a shirt? Obviously if there's no bed or young model available I'm forced to walk around all day with my shirt tails flapping in the breeze.
It's terrible but whadda ya gunna do?
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I know Cohen was concerned for Bakalova's welfare, but if he had only waited a few moments more, the world might have seen far more of Rudy Ghooliani than it had ever wished.
 
dirtywick said:
Why would the democrats bribe postal workers to throw away mail in ballots when they were the only ones voting by mail?
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In the Louisville case I personally think the postal worker was dropping off ballots for someone else to pick up. He had a problem though either someone saw him or saw the ballots in the dumpster and reported it.

I do not know for certain the reason he placed the ballots in that dumpster. But there are only 2 possibilities.
1. He was lazy.
2. He was part of a ballot collection scheme.

I hope he was just lazy as there is no way that Biden or Amy McGrath could collect enough ballots to win in KY. That $100 million McGrath spent trying to unseat Mitch McConnell could have best been used elsewhere. The Democrat party was throwing truckloads of money in the furnace for no reason. "Let's get the people of KY to throw their Senate Majority leader under the bus for a freshman butched up ex Marine Liberal pilot lady." Right. Let's get right on that.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
In the Louisville case I personally think the postal worker was dropping off ballots for someone else to pick up. He had a problem though either someone saw him or saw the ballots in the dumpster and reported it.

I do not know for certain the reason he placed the ballots in that dumpster. But there are only 2 possibilities.
1. He was lazy.
2. He was part of a ballot collection scheme.

I hope he was just lazy as there is no way that Biden or Amy McGrath could collect enough ballots to win in KY. That $100 million McGrath spent trying to unseat Mitch McConnell could have best been used elsewhere. The Democrat party was throwing truckloads of money in the furnace for no reason. "Let's get the people of KY to throw their Senate Majority leader under the bus for a freshman butched up ex Marine Liberal pilot lady." Right. Let's get right on that.
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I'm not often left speechless, but that did it.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
In the Louisville case I personally think the postal worker was dropping off ballots for someone else to pick up. He had a problem though either someone saw him or saw the ballots in the dumpster and reported it.

I do not know for certain the reason he placed the ballots in that dumpster. But there are only 2 possibilities.
1. He was lazy.
2. He was part of a ballot collection scheme.

I hope he was just lazy as there is no way that Biden or Amy McGrath could collect enough ballots to win in KY. That $100 million McGrath spent trying to unseat Mitch McConnell could have best been used elsewhere. The Democrat party was throwing truckloads of money in the furnace for no reason. "Let's get the people of KY to throw their Senate Majority leader under the bus for a freshman butched up ex Marine Liberal pilot lady." Right. Let's get right on that.
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What is the goal of the ballot collection scheme? They’re pulling D votes out of the mail and collecting them for what purpose? They’re already on their way to being counted. That doesn’t make sense
 
Stacyhs said:
You misunderstand.



Only 143 out of 204 mail ballot incidents resulted in convictions meaning that the other 61 incidents were not proved to be cases of fraud. They were likely unintentional mistakes. Also, notice that the 1200 cases were "alleged" cases of fraud over 20 years. Twelve hundred alleged cases over 20 years wherein HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of votes were cast is pretty damn good. That's actually an excellent argument for election security.
Click to expand...

I see. Yes I agree that our elections have been more secure in the past. I trust the process yet I don't like having improprieties or even the appearance of within that process. This election is different than the previous. When we start sending out mail in ballots en mass it leads to more dishonesty and more cheating.

Although there will always be some fraud in every election it has been on a small scale and the possibility for large scale cheating was low until the 2020 election. In conjunction to large scale mass ballots being sent out the election rules were changed last minute to ease even the most basic security measures like the signature verification on those ballots in some states.

Bottom line is we can't have either side thinking they were cheated. There's not enough plywood in the World to protect businesses if both sides riot at the same time.
 
dirtywick said:
What is the goal of the ballot collection scheme? They’re pulling D votes out of the mail and collecting them for what purpose? They’re already on their way to being counted. That doesn’t make sense
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Collect all ballots, D votes and R votes. Wash R votes and relabel as D votes. Or if the R vote can't be washed and relabelled, destroy it so it doesn't get counted. Or vice versa, it works either way.
 
There is an obvious reason why none of these casea constitute any kind of fraud that would make any difference:

if there was a way to change the votes directly to win, operatives of both parties would be doing that all the time instead of spending billions and all their time gerrymandering and suppressing the vote.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Collect all ballots, D votes and R votes. Wash R votes and relabel as D votes. Or if the R vote can't be washed and relabelled, destroy it so it doesn't get counted. Or vice versa, it works either way.
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So they’re collecting small bags of mostly D votes and very few R votes in a state they lose badly in, opening and reading them all, and then making forgeries of, well all of them, and remailing them? Is that what’s been going on?
 
dirtywick said:
So they’re collecting small bags of mostly D votes and very few R votes in a state they lose badly in, opening and reading them all, and then making forgeries of, well all of them, and remailing them? Is that what’s been going on?
Click to expand...

I would guess that any similar activity would be better off done in a swing state where it matters. As I said I don't know why the Postal worker put those ballots in the dumpster. That was one example of ballots being dumped. If it could happen in Louisville KY, it could certainly happen in Philly PA or Atlanta GA etc.
 
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