Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

[Resume]

The possibilities of placing a thumb on the scale are much greater with a mail in ballot system.

First you have to have a group of individuals who are motivated to take the risk of tampering with the election.

Once you have a team put together you begin collecting ballots.
1. Some ballots may be collected by placing fake ballot box drop offs. Some can be collected thru insiders (your guys) working at the USPS. I'd work out a drop off location for the USPS worker to dump ballots then have one member go pick them up. Could be a dumpster in a city or a rural location if outside a major population center.
2. Some can be stolen from mail boxes.
3. Set up teams to go into retirement homes for the elderly, help those people vote in some cases in others just collect their ballots and fill them out how you please.
4. A few individuals can be tasked with identifying the deceased voters that are still registered and request a ballot for them.
5. Names and dates of birth/death can be found at any cemetery. The dead can still request ballots and or vote long after being in the ground.
6. Mass produce counterfeit ballots, enter the names and birthdates of deceased voters. Fill them out though one could understand that this would be labor intensive and therefore limit the completion of ballots to just a check in the box for one candidate only. This is also safer than requesting a ballot thru the mail.
7. Poll workers. You'd need to recruit poll workers or place members of your team in key positions during the ballot counting process. Those members could weed out the unwanted votes by spoiling the ballots in some way.
8. Multiple ballots received in the mailbox. People that received multiple ballots from the individuals that previously resided at that address could fill out those ballots and mail them in. Who'd know?

Those are just a few off the top of my head. When voting occurs in other ways besides in person it's easy to cheat. There's literally no risk of getting caught.

Rudy, is that you?

Belongs here.

No, wait . . . here.

 

[smartcooky]

The possibilities of placing a thumb on the scale are much greater with a mail in ballot system.

First you have to have a group of individuals who are motivated to take the risk of tampering with the election.

Once you have a team put together you begin collecting ballots.

OK then

1. Some ballots may be collected by placing fake ballot box drop offs.

You have evidence of this? Don't you think that those whose task it is to collect official ballots from boxes are going to notice extra drop off boxes that are not on their list to clear.

Some can be collected thru insiders (your guys) working at the USPS.

You have evidence of that these people exist?

2. Some can be stolen from mail boxes.

You have evidence of ballot theft from mailboxes?

3. Set up teams to go into retirement homes for the elderly, help those people vote in some cases in others just collect their ballots and fill them out how you please.

You have evidence of this happening? How would they match the signatures?

4. A few individuals can be tasked with identifying the deceased voters that are still registered and request a ballot for them.

"A few individuals" isn't going to cut it. You would need thousands of these people doing this.

5. Names and dates of birth/death can be found at any cemetery. The dead can still request ballots and or vote long after being in the ground.

Really? Don't you have voter rolls? Do states no there have an agency whose task it is to cull deceased people from them voter rolls?

6. Mass produce counterfeit ballots, enter the names and birthdates of deceased voters. Fill them out though one could understand that this would be labor intensive and therefore limit the completion of ballots to just a check in the box for one candidate only. This is also safer than requesting a ballot thru the mail.

You will need thousands of people to do this.

7. Poll workers. You'd need to recruit poll workers or place members of your team in key positions during the ballot counting process. Those members could weed out the unwanted votes by spoiling the ballots in some way.

Recruitment would need to be dome very, very carefully. The moment you try to recruit the wrong person, the game is up.

8. Multiple ballots received in the mailbox. People that received multiple ballots from the individuals that previously resided at that address could fill out those ballots and mail them in. Who'd know?

How would they match the signatures?

Those are just a few off the top of my head. When voting occurs in other ways besides in person it's easy to cheat.

Trumpista falsehood. Its no easier to cheat with mail in than voting in person

There's literally no risk of getting caught.

I disagree. I think there is literally a huge risk of getting caught.

For a start, you will need to employ thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of people to carry out this fantasy of yours of people, and human nature being what it is, someone will talk and your secret will get out. Only two people knew that Bill Clinton was porking a white house intern... one of them talked. Only several people knew that Trump tried to extort Ukraine President Zelenskiy, and a few of them talked.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

[qimg]https://media.giphy.com/media/2kXLW8Wuhy1zWOkoJr/giphy.gif[/qimg]

You're a bit wrong there in your presumption.

 

[acbytesla]

The possibilities of placing a thumb on the scale are much greater with a mail in ballot system.

First you have to have a group of individuals who are motivated to take the risk of tampering with the election.

Once you have a team put together you begin collecting ballots.
1. Some ballots may be collected by placing fake ballot box drop offs. Some can be collected thru insiders (your guys) working at the USPS. I'd work out a drop off location for the USPS worker to dump ballots then have one member go pick them up. Could be a dumpster in a city or a rural location if outside a major population center.
2. Some can be stolen from mail boxes.
3. Set up teams to go into retirement homes for the elderly, help those people vote in some cases in others just collect their ballots and fill them out how you please.
4. A few individuals can be tasked with identifying the deceased voters that are still registered and request a ballot for them.
5. Names and dates of birth/death can be found at any cemetery. The dead can still request ballots and or vote long after being in the ground.
6. Mass produce counterfeit ballots, enter the names and birthdates of deceased voters. Fill them out though one could understand that this would be labor intensive and therefore limit the completion of ballots to just a check in the box for one candidate only. This is also safer than requesting a ballot thru the mail.
7. Poll workers. You'd need to recruit poll workers or place members of your team in key positions during the ballot counting process. Those members could weed out the unwanted votes by spoiling the ballots in some way.
8. Multiple ballots received in the mailbox. People that received multiple ballots from the individuals that previously resided at that address could fill out those ballots and mail them in. Who'd know?

Those are just a few off the top of my head. When voting occurs in other ways besides in person it's easy to cheat. There's literally no risk of getting caught.

Wow! Where do I begin to slap down this Gish Gallop.

1. Get a team together. That's a major conspiracy.

2. We have drop boxes all over Washington State. But guess what? They are ALL next to GOVERNMENT buildings and the State, COUNTY OR CITY employees KNOW THAT IT IS THERE. You don't deposit your ballot in some box just anywhere.
3. Yes ballots could be stolen from mailboxes. But people are expecting their ballots. They call in and say they haven't received theirs. Giant red flag. And they will get a second ballot. But two ballots voted by the same person cancels out both. It's also a Monster red flag especially if any significant number
4, 5 and 6 Ballots are checked against deaths. The databases on this are excellent now. We had a young woman who dropped off her ballot in the early voting period but died a week before election day. Her ballot was invalidated.

Who would know? You gotta be kidding. You're talking about hiring people to commit major felonies and hoping someone doesn't talk.

 

[Bob001]

The possibilities of placing a thumb on the scale are much greater with a mail in ballot system.

First you have to have a group of individuals who are motivated to take the risk of tampering with the election.

Once you have a team put together you begin collecting ballots.
1. Some ballots may be collected by placing fake ballot box drop offs. Some can be collected thru insiders (your guys) working at the USPS. I'd work out a drop off location for the USPS worker to dump ballots then have one member go pick them up. Could be a dumpster in a city or a rural location if outside a major population center.
2. Some can be stolen from mail boxes.
3. Set up teams to go into retirement homes for the elderly, help those people vote in some cases in others just collect their ballots and fill them out how you please.
4. A few individuals can be tasked with identifying the deceased voters that are still registered and request a ballot for them.
5. Names and dates of birth/death can be found at any cemetery. The dead can still request ballots and or vote long after being in the ground.
6. Mass produce counterfeit ballots, enter the names and birthdates of deceased voters. Fill them out though one could understand that this would be labor intensive and therefore limit the completion of ballots to just a check in the box for one candidate only. This is also safer than requesting a ballot thru the mail.
7. Poll workers. You'd need to recruit poll workers or place members of your team in key positions during the ballot counting process. Those members could weed out the unwanted votes by spoiling the ballots in some way.
8. Multiple ballots received in the mailbox. People that received multiple ballots from the individuals that previously resided at that address could fill out those ballots and mail them in. Who'd know?

Those are just a few off the top of my head. When voting occurs in other ways besides in person it's easy to cheat. There's literally no risk of getting caught.

Do you really believe all this? Or any of it. Mail ballots are mailed to the current addresses of registered voters. The envelopes both ways are barcoded and linked to the voter. The return envelope has to be signed by the voter, and the signature is matched to the signature on file. "Mass produce counterfeit ballots?" What would you do with them? What would you mail them back in? Enlisting teams of poll workers, who are all keeping an eye on each other? Where is there any evidence that any of this has ever happened?

 

[Bogative]

What makes you think mail ballots are a security problem?

That would be the Commission on Federal Election Reform co-chaired my Jimmy Carter and James Baker.

Fraud occurs in several ways. Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.56 A notorious recent case of absentee ballot fraud was Miami’s mayoral election of 1998, and in that case, the judge declared the election fraudulent and called for a new election. Absentee balloting is vulnerable to abuse in several ways: Blank ballots mailed to the wrong address or to large residential buildings might get intercepted. Citizens who vote at home, at nursing homes, at the workplace, or in church are more susceptible to pressure,overt and subtle, or to intimidation. Vote buying schemes are far more difficult to detect when citizens vote by mail. States therefore should reduce the risks of fraud and abuse in absentee voting by prohibiting “third-party” organizations, candidates, and political party activists from handling absentee ballots. States also should make sure that absentee ballots received by election officials before Election Day are kept secure until they are opened and counted.

This only covers absentee ballots, I can only imagine what they would say about millions and millions of unsolicited mail in ballots.

 

[surrogate]

The possibilities of placing a thumb on the scale are much greater with a mail in ballot system.

First you have to have a group of individuals who are motivated to take the risk of tampering with the election.

Once you have a team put together you begin collecting ballots.
1. Some ballots may be collected by placing fake ballot box drop offs. Some can be collected thru insiders (your guys) working at the USPS. I'd work out a drop off location for the USPS worker to dump ballots then have one member go pick them up. Could be a dumpster in a city or a rural location if outside a major population center.
2. Some can be stolen from mail boxes.
3. Set up teams to go into retirement homes for the elderly, help those people vote in some cases in others just collect their ballots and fill them out how you please.
4. A few individuals can be tasked with identifying the deceased voters that are still registered and request a ballot for them.
5. Names and dates of birth/death can be found at any cemetery. The dead can still request ballots and or vote long after being in the ground.
6. Mass produce counterfeit ballots, enter the names and birthdates of deceased voters. Fill them out though one could understand that this would be labor intensive and therefore limit the completion of ballots to just a check in the box for one candidate only. This is also safer than requesting a ballot thru the mail.
7. Poll workers. You'd need to recruit poll workers or place members of your team in key positions during the ballot counting process. Those members could weed out the unwanted votes by spoiling the ballots in some way.
8. Multiple ballots received in the mailbox. People that received multiple ballots from the individuals that previously resided at that address could fill out those ballots and mail them in. Who'd know?

Those are just a few off the top of my head. When voting occurs in other ways besides in person it's easy to cheat. There's literally no risk of getting caught.

1. Wouldn't ballots placed in fake ballot boxes already be filled out?
2. Have there been any reports of large numbers of mail in ballots being stolen/not delivered?
3. I suppose it is possible, but I don't think the staff are going to be too keen with just anybody visiting their facility, especially during a pandemic.
4. I pretty sure at least some of the states check death records.
5. see 4
6. Don't the mail ballots have a unique barcode/serial number? How would a forger determine the correct number?
7. Seems mighty risky and something that could be easily audited.
8. I suppose the person who moved and didn't receive a ballot would know. Shouldn't there be widespread reports of people not getting their ballot and trying to vote in person only to be rejected for having already voted by mail?

I did say plausible in my original post, everything you stated seems highly likely to fail. Also, how exactly would these criminal masterminds know how many fraudulent ballots were even needed?

 

[Bob001]

....
We had a young woman who dropped off her ballot in the early voting period but died a week before election day. Her ballot was invalidated.
....

That sounds tragic. One of her last acts on earth was to cast her vote, and it didn't even count. Maybe there should be a category of "honorary votes" or something.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

OK then



You have evidence of this? Don't you think that those whose task it is to collect official ballots from boxes are going to notice extra drop off boxes that are not on their list to clear.



You have evidence of that these people exist?



You have evidence of ballot theft from mailboxes?



You have evidence of this happening? How would they match the signatures?



"A few individuals" isn't going to cut it. You would need thousands of these people doing this.



Really? Don't you have voter rolls? Do states no there have an agency whose task it is to cull deceased people from them voter rolls?



You will need thousands of people to do this.



Recruitment would need to be dome very, very carefully. The moment you try to recruit the wrong person, the game is up.



How would they match the signatures?



Trumpista falsehood. Its no easier to cheat with mail in than voting in person



I disagree. I think there is literally a huge risk of getting caught.

For a start, you will need to employ thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of people to carry out this fantasy of yours of people, and human nature being what it is, someone will talk and your secret will get out. Only two people knew that Bill Clinton was porking a white house intern... one of them talked. Only several people knew that Trump tried to extort Ukraine President Zelenskiy, and a few of them talked.

The question was asked how could it be done. Nothing about having evidence of it. I did not state I had evidence of any of those actions being done. I stated multiple ways they could be done and multiple ways to cheat with a mail in election. I think it's a valid subject within the topic as we will hear more info upcoming pending the hand recounts.

Every method I mentioned is a way to cheat. As far as needing thousands of people I disagree. It would be foolish to risk that many recruits if nothing else loose lips could be a problem.

As I pointed out, the 2000 Florida election was decided with 547 votes. That state determined the election for Bush.

Another way to cheat would be thru a software update hack. Send election officials in charge of voting machines and software an update link by email. Of course one should really call in advance to let them know there is a software update to be done and your company is sending the update via email.

 

[acbytesla]

That sounds tragic. One of her last acts on earth was to cast her vote, and it didn't even count. Maybe there should be a category of "honorary votes" or something.

Yeah, I kind of felt the same way. IIRC correctly she was only 23.

But I get why they had no choice but to invalidate it.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

The possibilities of placing a thumb on the scale are much greater with a mail in ballot system.

First you have to have a group of individuals who are motivated to take the risk of tampering with the election.

Once you have a team put together you begin collecting ballots.
1. Some ballots may be collected by placing fake ballot box drop offs. Some can be collected thru insiders (your guys) working at the USPS. I'd work out a drop off location for the USPS worker to dump ballots then have one member go pick them up. Could be a dumpster in a city or a rural location if outside a major population center.
2. Some can be stolen from mail boxes.
3. Set up teams to go into retirement homes for the elderly, help those people vote in some cases in others just collect their ballots and fill them out how you please.
4. A few individuals can be tasked with identifying the deceased voters that are still registered and request a ballot for them.
5. Names and dates of birth/death can be found at any cemetery. The dead can still request ballots and or vote long after being in the ground.
6. Mass produce counterfeit ballots, enter the names and birthdates of deceased voters. Fill them out though one could understand that this would be labor intensive and therefore limit the completion of ballots to just a check in the box for one candidate only. This is also safer than requesting a ballot thru the mail.
7. Poll workers. You'd need to recruit poll workers or place members of your team in key positions during the ballot counting process. Those members could weed out the unwanted votes by spoiling the ballots in some way.
8. Multiple ballots received in the mailbox. People that received multiple ballots from the individuals that previously resided at that address could fill out those ballots and mail them in. Who'd know?

Those are just a few off the top of my head. When voting occurs in other ways besides in person it's easy to cheat. There's literally no risk of getting caught.

This is ridiculous. Think through those things just a little bit. Ridiculous.

 

[Bob001]

That would be the Commission on Federal Election Reform co-chaired my Jimmy Carter and James Baker.

This only covers absentee ballots, I can only imagine what they would say about millions and millions of unsolicited mail in ballots.

Absentee ballots ARE mail-in ballots. Claiming otherwise is a false distinction. Again, where is the evidence of major or even minor fraud in the states that have conducted elections by mail for many years? And you might have noted some other recommendations in the commission's report, like universal registration and "increased voter registration efforts." Of course, they also want every voter to present a Real ID picture ID, too, but they want to make ID easier to get. Plenty to talk about for everybody.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_on_Federal_Election_Reform
https://web.archive.org/web/20070620141618/http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/

 

[acbytesla]

The problem with Chris's fanciful way to steal an election ignores that it would require a conspiracy of hundreds maybe thousands to do. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, people will talk. And mail ballots have all kinds of security measures that would trip it up sending a lot of people to prison for a long long time.

As for getting dead people to vote...he should read this.

Over the last 10 years, there have been multiple large-scale investigations surveying voting- and election-related prosecutions, prosecution referrals, and/or allegations nationwide. All have found only a tiny incidence of suspected misconduct. Most recently, for example, the Washington Post analyzed data from three vote-at-home states and identified only “372 possible cases of double voting or voting on behalf of deceased people,” out of about 14.6 million voters — or 0.0025 percent. footnote2_tn90fja12 The conservative Heritage Foundation, which maintains an online database cataloging alleged election fraud cases from the last 20 years, contains 1200 incidents within its database and has identified 204 involving mail ballots, only 143 of which resulted in a criminal conviction. footnote3_qi6nu6913 In the same time period, roughly 250 million mail ballots were cast in the United States. footnote4_5ll75kq14 This “translates to about 0.00006 percent of total votes cast” or, viewed another way, “one case per state every six or seven years.” footnote5_jyz4wog15

 

[Bob001]

.....
Another way to cheat would be thru a software update hack. Send election officials in charge of voting machines and software an update link by email. Of course one should really call in advance to let them know there is a software update to be done and your company is sending the update via email.

Electronic voting machines are a completely different issue, and their vulnerability has been widely debated, especially the ones that don't product a paper trail. But that doesn't have anything to do with mail-in ballots.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

1. Wouldn't ballots placed in fake ballot boxes already be filled out?
2. Have there been any reports of large numbers of mail in ballots being stolen/not delivered?
3. I suppose it is possible, but I don't think the staff are going to be too keen with just anybody visiting their facility, especially during a pandemic.
4. I pretty sure at least some of the states check death records.
5. see 4
6. Don't the mail ballots have a unique barcode/serial number? How would a forger determine the correct number?
7. Seems mighty risky and something that could be easily audited.
8. I suppose the person who moved and didn't receive a ballot would know. Shouldn't there be widespread reports of people not getting their ballot and trying to vote in person only to be rejected for having already voted by mail?

I did say plausible in my original post, everything you stated seems highly likely to fail. Also, how exactly would these criminal masterminds know how many fraudulent ballots were even needed?

1. Sure they'd be filled out. The ballot would have to be checked to see if the vote was cast to your preferred candidate. If it was not the ink would need to be washed and the new candidate selected.
2. Yes https://www.whas11.com/article/news...ster/417-16d4b8b8-9ad7-48f7-97c9-98caa48bf808
3. It'd be helpful to have someone on the inside.
4.+5. Dead people vote in every election.
6. The forger would need a few sample ballots to get the barcode numerical order or series. The bar code is mainly for tracking ballots, not that they will be accepted or rejected based on the code. Especially if the fake ballots are placed in drop boxes, never having been thru the USPS.
7. The risk to poll workers on your team could be minimized by obstructing poll watchers. If they can't see what's going on there is no evidence of foul play.
8. Multiple ballots have been sent to the same address. Who knows what happened in every case?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thank you. That sniffy "the media doesn't get to pick the President, ya know!" is really getting a little old. The media isn't "picking the president," or claiming to, anymore than anyone else who follows the numbers and sees how they trend is. It's a non-binding prediction, not an non-Constitutional coup.

(And you know who else doesn't get to pick the next President? The present one, Mr Donald "I won! I won!" Trump.)

This is a typical talking point that makes the rounds so that everyone can repeat it over and over. It need not be true, and one can correct the repeater multiple times. They will simply repeat the talking point again at the next opportune moment.

Then pretty soon it becomes a relevant fact.

 

[Resume]

1. Sure they'd be filled out. The ballot would have to be checked to see if the vote was cast to your preferred candidate. If it was not the ink would need to be washed and the new candidate selected.
2. Yes https://www.whas11.com/article/news...ster/417-16d4b8b8-9ad7-48f7-97c9-98caa48bf808
3. It'd be helpful to have someone on the inside.
4.+5. Dead people vote in every election.
6. The forger would need a few sample ballots to get the barcode numerical order or series. The bar code is mainly for tracking ballots, not that they will be accepted or rejected based on the code. Especially if the fake ballots are placed in drop boxes, never having been thru the USPS.
7. The risk to poll workers on your team could be minimized by obstructing poll watchers. If they can't see what's going on there is no evidence of foul play.
8. Multiple ballots have been sent to the same address. Who knows what happened in every case?

Rudy, the press is here, put down that dildo. No, no, Maria Bakalova isn't here.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I take it Twitter is fact checking them all when they call him President elect?

What are you talking about? Biden is the President Elect. Just because Trumpy doesn't want to leave the party and his coconspirators are enabling him doesn't change the fact: Biden is the President Elect.

Get over it.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Electronic voting machines are a completely different issue, and their vulnerability has been widely discussed. But that doesn't have anything to do with paper ballots.

I don't know how your state does it but in KY, you fill out a paper ballot and insert it into a scanner/voting machine. The vote is then recorded electronically. The only drawback with tampering with our system is the existence of the paper ballot which later could be counted by hand. The in person voting is harder to cheat. In addition to a "software update" it'd take someone on the inside to remove a certain number of paper ballots from the unwanted candidate and replacing them with ballots marked for their chosen candidate.

This could be coordinated if one knew in advance that at a certain set time there would be a ballot switch in the system of 10,000 votes or so for your chosen candidate. I suppose that could work elsewhere as well.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Rudy, the press is here, put down that dildo. No, no, Maria Bakalova isn't here.

LOL! Rudy was going for it! I'd bet he was about to ask her to step up to the microphone.