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Cont: 2020 Presidential Election part 3

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I think the flaw in that reasoning is the large numbers of Americans that simply don’t believe those numbers are legitimate.

Just today I saw a petition calling for a recount or a new election outright.

And a pickup with “2020 Fraud Election” painted on the rear window.

And numerous Facebook posts calling the election fraudulent.

For those folks, no number, no matter how large, will be seen as legitimate.

That's the point in the messaging. You have to change the narrative. There are some who will buy what Trump is peddling. The point is to get the overwhelming majority to conclude it is a fait accompli. And the losers are just yelling at the Ref. You can't let the nutjobs own the message with a lie.
 
I think the flaw in that reasoning is the large numbers of Americans that simply don’t believe those numbers are legitimate.

Just today I saw a petition calling for a recount or a new election outright.

And a pickup with “2020 Fraud Election” painted on the rear window.

And numerous Facebook posts calling the election fraudulent.

For those folks, no number, no matter how large, will be seen as legitimate.

They don't want to believe them.
These are the same people who think the coronavirus is a hoax, doctors are reporting any hospital death as corona related so they can make money, masks don't save lives, Trump doesn't lie, Biden is a pedophile, there's a child sex ring in the basement of Comet Ping Pong Pizza run by HRC, and a myriad of other idiocies. The facts don't matter.
 
And that's all assuming that Trump actually genuinely wants to be a dictator. Which I think is a ridiculous assumption, based predominantly on tribal thinking and the eternal need to be outraged about everything.

I, for one, appreciate the measured tone you adopt in your posts.
 

They don't want to believe them.
These are the same people who think the coronavirus is a hoax, doctors are reporting any hospital death as corona related so they can make money, masks don't save lives, Trump doesn't lie, Biden is a pedophile, there's a child sex ring in the basement of Comet Ping Pong Pizza run by HRC, and a myriad of other idiocies. The facts don't matter.

They do matter. They just don't matter to some. We must drown out their nonsense. Not to convince the crazies. Think of them as TJMK. There was a time that the people thought Amanda Knox was guilty.

You battle lies with the truth. There is no other way.
 
"Large numbers of Americans" don't believe evolution.

"Large numbers of Americans" are morons.

Both are undoubtedly true.

But I keep coming back to the large number of “non-morons” who get caught up in this sort of thing. Who are engineers and educators and other professionals apparently able to apply critical thinking skills in other areas.

Were it only so simple as “We’re smart and they’re morons”. It’s not, which leaves me quite befuddled.
 
This right here. It's a little disingenuous to say "oh, Trump's lost, he'll be gone in a couple of months, so what difference does it make?" It's the way he's losing, and the way the GOP largely is enabling that, that makes a difference. Trump isn't, AFAICT, doing anything he doesn't have a strict right to do. But Republicans over the last few years have made an absolute fetish of doing things they have a technical right to do without any consideration for whether those things are the right thing to do. Blocking Obama's SC pick in '16, ramming through their own this year (even when they had to directly contradict their stance from four years earlier to do so), and now demanding recounts that won't realistically make any difference and "investigations" that are really nothing more than specious and unfounded placeholders for riling their base and (probably) making money off the rubes...all these things make a compete hash of our democracy. How is any citizen ever going to be able to have confidence in the integrity of the process- which the GOP claims is their primary reason for wanting the recounts/investigations- when any future loser of an election has only to cite this one as precedent for throwing shade on that process for his case?
All of that is certainly true but still I'm really more pissed at Republicans for what they have *not* done over the past four years. GOP politicians have been absolutely spineless while Trump broke laws day after day. Then came the real chance to show their support for the USA in the form of the impeachment vote. I have no need to rehearse how that turned out.
 
They do matter. They just don't matter to some. We must drown out their nonsense. Not to convince the crazies. Think of them as TJMK. There was a time that the people thought Amanda Knox was guilty.

You battle lies with the truth. There is no other way.

I meant the facts don't matter to the crazies with the pickups with “2020 Fraud Election” painted on the rear windows and Facebook posts calling the election fraudulent. Just as the crazies over on TJMK have never been, and never will be, convinced by the facts, the crazies who think Biden won because of voter fraud will never be convinced otherwise. Some are just too far gone into Crazy Land
 
Both are undoubtedly true.

But I keep coming back to the large number of “non-morons” who get caught up in this sort of thing. Who are engineers and educators and other professionals apparently able to apply critical thinking skills in other areas.

Were it only so simple as “We’re smart and they’re morons”. It’s not, which leaves me quite befuddled.

You mean like every religious person ever including Sir Isaac Newton and Francis Collins?

Hell even nutjob James Woods reportedly has an IQ of 140.

Special pleading and cognitive dissonance isn't just a trait of morons.
 
Both are undoubtedly true.

But I keep coming back to the large number of “non-morons” who get caught up in this sort of thing. Who are engineers and educators and other professionals apparently able to apply critical thinking skills in other areas.

Were it only so simple as “We’re smart and they’re morons”. It’s not, which leaves me quite befuddled.

Even engineers and educators and other professionals apparently able to apply critical thinking skills in other areas can allow their critical thinking skills to be overpowered by their emotional and psychological needs.
 
I meant the facts don't matter to the crazies with the pickups with “2020 Fraud Election” painted on the rear windows and Facebook posts calling the election fraudulent. Just as the crazies over on TJMK have never been, and never will be, convinced by the facts, the crazies who think Biden won because of voter fraud will never be convinced otherwise. Some are just too far gone into Crazy Land

Agreed. I was more adding to your post than disagreeing.
 
We live in a world where there's vast networks of media that exist to not just tell you what you want to believe is true, but to convince you that it is.
 
You mean like every religious person ever including Sir Isaac Newton and Francis Collins?

Hell even nutjob James Woods reportedly has an IQ of 140.

Special pleading and cognitive dissonance isn't just a trait of morons.

Unless he's taken an accepted, standardized test, I disregard these 'reportedly' stories. Too many times I think these are just rumors started by an agent or reporter... or even the person him/herself. Hell, my late FIL tried to tell me he had an IQ of 160. He was more than a bit of a blowhard who tried to impress people with his money, etc. He was intelligent, but I found that hard to believe. When I pressed him on it, he admitted it was on online test.
 
This could be a whole 'nother thread.
Yes, it could. But since you raised it here, I'll respond here. If the mods want to dish it off to a different thread, fine by me.

That's the thing that has bothered me most over the past four years - the sheer volume of unabashed mind-reading going on among self-styled skeptics. People assume they know the motivation and the state of Trump's mind, and then somehow become incapable of acknowledging that they're making assumptions and speculations, as well as becoming unable to consider any other possible motivation at all.

I disagree and I'll use the most obvious (to me) example to illustrate my view. Trump has incessantly called the press the "enemy of the people" (without the CAPS :)) and labeled numerous reports as "fake news". This is exactly what someone with malicious intents would say in order to minimize the impact of their malicious actions.

Assume Trump does not have malicious intents. But based on his statements we cannot distinguish his non-malicious intents from those of someone who does, in fact, have malicious intents. Thus, I would argue that it is not "mind-reading" or "speculations" to attribute to him malicious intents, especially in light of the overall zeitgeist created by Trump, namely, that so many of his actions have, indeed, harmed the USA.

It's an invocation of the old saw about judging a man not by his words but by his deeds. If we do that, I assert that is not speculation or mind-reading to take as the default assumption that he does not behave with good intentions.
 
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