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2020 United States presidential election - Conspiracy theories, alleged fraud, etc

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JayUtah said:
In short, the claims that voter fraud is a serious problem, or has been at any time in the recent past, have no basis in historical fact.
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Thanks. My impression is that, apart from GOP efforts to (legally if questionably) suppress and shape voting, there has been no significant problem with election fraud or voter fraud in the US. I just wanted a more informed opinion :)
 
She has not even taken the Oath yet, and already Marjorie Taylor Green, the Qanon kook elected to the House;is off to a great start...picking a fight with a prominent fellow GOP Congressman on the grounds he does not love D ear Leader enough:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/06/crenshaw-marjorie-taylor-greene-twitter-spat-434751

Man, I knew she would provide much amusement, but I was not expecting it to start this soon..
Guaranteed, in a few months The GOPers in the house will hate her much more then the House Dems;pretty clear she considers most of her fellow GOP congressmen as members of the Deep State.
 
JayUtah said:
In short, the claims that voter fraud is a serious problem, or has been at any time in the recent past, have no basis in historical fact.
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Here is Texas we used to have voters rise from the grave to vote for LBJ.:jaw-dropp Surely that counts as voter fraud? :confused:

Our Governor has been particularly active in trying to suppress votes from non-usual sources this years only to have his initiatives disallowed by the courts. It only antagonises fair minded people that might otherwise support him in matters of common interest, moving the state more blue.
 
Pooneil said:
Here is Texas we used to have voters rise from the grave to vote for LBJ.:jaw-dropp Surely that counts as voter fraud? :confused:
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Not in the distinction I made, but certainly in the broader sense. Voter fraud is the kind of fraud that one voter (or many voters acting individually, but with the same intent) could perpetrate. That occurs at a negligible rate. The larger category of election fraud deserves more attention, and that would include things like Johnson and the infamous Senate (I think?) election of 1948, which is what eerok was asking about, and did occur from time to time in the past, but not so much anymore as automation has taken over registration and verification. The distinction between voter fraud and election fraud is perhaps not relevant to his question. In any case, I guess it depends on what you want to call the recent past.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
"SharpieGate" seems to be going around. It's a claim that AZ vote was rigged by giving Trump voters sharpies (permanent markers) to fill their ballots out, which would be rejected as invalid by the voting machine. The idea being that in person voting favored Trump, so poll workers sabotaged the process by giving out improper markers at the polls to decrease turnout.

This was pretty much debunked right away, but it's still going around conservative social media.

Sharpies are actually fine to vote with and don't cause any problems. They actually are preferred as they are fast drying and dont smear nearly as much.
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Texas Sharpie Fallacy.
 
eerok said:
This question might be better asked here rather than the election thread: has there ever been a notable case of election fraud in the history of the US? If so, any in the past fifty years?
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There was fraud in a North Carolina Congressional District race a few years back. As I recall it was bad enough that the results of the election were thrown out and a special election was held later.

ETA: This was the 2018 race in NC 09.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...raud-republicans-arent-talking-about-it-much/
 
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JayUtah said:
The Republican party's plan seems clear. Where possible, prevent the preprocessing of absentee votes, which were projected to favor Democrats. That means in-person voting, which was predicted to favor Republican candidates, makes it look like a Republican win on election night.
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Except there never was a moment, from the time the first results started trickling in, where any of the networks had Turnip up in the electoral votes projected, state by state. From the minute the states started to be "called" for one side or the other, Biden was ahead, and stayed ahead. And that lasted through the entire four days after the election, until the whole thing finally came to an end. So it never really DID look like a Republican win on election night.

Not that any of that means a Republican FAIL, mind you. I'm pretty sure this wasn't a FAIL, or if it was maybe possibly a FAIL, it was a winning FAIL.
 
eerok said:
Oh, yeah. I remember that. It's pretty much a given that election hijinx is the province of the GOP.
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That's the one I was thinking of when I said it's comparatively rare. And again, the distinction between voter fraud and election fraud may not be important. But I hope to distinguish the cases where we there is misconduct on the part of election officials, party officials, and so forth from cases where the voters themselves commit fraud.

It's not clear in this case to what extent the intended recipients of the individual absentee ballots may have acted in bad faith. If they request a ballot they are lawfully allowed to receive, complete it, and give it to someone else to deliver to the election official, then it's difficult to say the voter has committed fraud. There may be laws governing who may handle completed ballots, but it's not clear here that there was nefarious intent.

On the other hand, if a voter requests an absentee ballot in order to let other operators complete and return it on their behalf, then the voter will have colluded with the operator to commit fraud.
 
JayUtah said:
That's the one I was thinking of when I said it's comparatively rare. And again, the distinction between voter fraud and election fraud may not be important. But I hope to distinguish the cases where we there is misconduct on the part of election officials, party officials, and so forth from cases where the voters themselves commit fraud.

It's not clear in this case to what extent the intended recipients of the individual absentee ballots may have acted in bad faith. If they request a ballot they are lawfully allowed to receive, complete it, and give it to someone else to deliver to the election official, then it's difficult to say the voter has committed fraud. There may be laws governing who may handle completed ballots, but it's not clear here that there was nefarious intent.

On the other hand, if a voter requests an absentee ballot in order to let other operators complete and return it on their behalf, then the voter will have colluded with the operator to commit fraud.
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I admit that I learned more about the US electoral process this time around than I did any other, and I'm less concerned about its fragility than I was when this election began. I thought it was easier to commit both kinds of fraud -- electoral and voting -- than appears to be the case.

Anyway, it's obvious that Trump will fail in his tantrum-driven attacks on the election. There's far too large a margin here, not to mention that the facts seem to be against him.
 
eerok said:
... not to mention that the facts seem...
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.....to be surfacing in FaceBook comments:


I can't see how Biden's people think he is going to win Pennsylvania. I think it's a crime scene. First, read Justice Alito's order.

The people who pad-locked the doors, moved machines and used covid rules to deny any scrutineers from the other party - are defying the US Supreme Court. A second letter had to be written, to give meaningful access.

When Benford's Law is broken, or someone produces a video, or evidence of ballot box stuffing - that is taken to the court as evidence and sometimes there is a recount.

When did the media get to choose ? The media and Big Tech have conspired to tell the people that Donald Trump's claims of fraud are "baseless" and "lack evidence". This week, the US Supreme Court will take in that "baseless evidence" and we will hear the rule of law (as interpreted by the bench of 9 justices).

What reason would someone have to defy a clear instruction from the highest court ? It's textbook contrive to conceal.

MSM does not explain that in PA, it is not an argument over a hanging chad. This is locking observers out, then court ordered to let them in, but moving the machines and covid-ruling them to a wall, where they couldn't even see the ballots being counted from across the room. Outrageous

When a SC justice tells you to do something, you do it. If he tells you twice, (the second one being "meaningful access") and you still resist - they are resisting the legitimization of what is happening in the counting room.

The Democrats were told to provide access, then provide meaningful access...They refused to comply.

I predict the judges will flip-out over how their order was carried out and they will see the defiance as proof that fraud is being concealed .... and every ballot counted under those conditions will be tossed.

So, that's the other joy of this coming week - the learning curve of photogenic C-students (MSM) trying to explain something they don't understand, which they were told to proclaim was victory for Biden.

It's fake news. The system requires journalists, but the MSM are activists. The "news" is ultimately controlled by the owners.

With Biden, it's "His Turn." The pre-VP Biden was never rolled out. There was 8yrs as VP, groping, squeezing and kissing in photos. Would Dick Cheney have been possible without Senator Joe Biden ? CNN reports that Dick Cheney will advise Joe Biden on foreign policy. Warmongering Neocons are back in town.

Biden will do what Trump prevented - put boots on the ground in Syria. The neocons are pissed off that they weren't included in the peace conference. Russia, Turkey, Iran and Iraq and Hezbollah was included.

The neocons were about to double-down under Hillary. Trump helped vanquish the head-choppers. The people voted for Trump, then, the pee-tape-impeach-nonsense.

If Trump loses, it will be a sigh, and return to normal for emotional guidance, while Syria is destroyed, probably invaded and Ukraine is turned into a "front line state" because "Putin-bad".

It will probably start with an atrocity accusation, then tough talk from Joe.

-- FaceBook commenter
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Facebook comments . . . Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
 
Bubba said:
I see "Avoid the material. Attack the source"
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Bare assertions and baseless claims do not evidence make. I reiterate: Facebook comments . . .

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
 
Resume said:
Bare assertions and baseless claims do not evidence make. I reiterate: Facebook comments . . .

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
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Its someone's opinion.

As are most statements seen above.
 
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