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2020 Presidential Election part 2

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Bob001 said:
What do you think you are talking about? The U.S. "left" is far to the right of most of Western Europe, Japan, even Canada. Today's right is far to the right of what conservatism used to be. Nixon created the EPA and tried to get a universal health insurance plan through Congress. Reagan supported an immigration reform bill. He would be considered aa bleeding-heart liberal by today's standards. Sen. McCain supported a later immigration reform bill. The U.S. right-wing hasn't been as extreme -- and as fundamentally anti-American -- since the McCarthy era.
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This.

Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon and the like would be the focus of Republican attack ads calling them Pinko Commies in today's political landscape. Sanders and Warren would be considered solidly centrist in most other democratic nations.
 
Bubba said:
The democrats understand they are in a battle for their existence. Cornered rats will do anything to survive. The DNC is now a Trojan Horse full of crazy which has already been spilling out into the streets and congress for some time now
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We're waiting for you behind door 101 ...

*Signed*

The Rats
 
JoeMorgue said:
Okay. Do that in a way that doesn't, indeed can't, prevent one single person (and, since I have to remind you, black people are people) from legally voting.
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If your assertion is that black people are uniquely or particularly incapable of obtaining ID, it sounds like you may be the one needing the reminder about them being people.

There is no such thing as a system wherein people who are hugely incompetent and unable to sort out their life even in very basic ways, don't end up feeling some of the effects of being a person like that.

For you to demand that we find a way to do a reliable election that doesn't impede ONE SINGLE PERSON from voting is no more reasonable than if I demanded a system where lazy, forgetful people have extraordinary efforts made to hand-hold them to ensure they vote.

It's certainly not any more reasonable than me saying we should have a system where voter identity is secure and verified, because if it isn't - then that also can deny someone their vote. Any time a bogus vote is done, it negates someone's real vote.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
So he's asking his followers to raise money for recounts that might not even have a snowball's chance in hell of changing anything (unless Biden wins a state by only a few hundred votes). What a good person they're voting for.
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Again though, that isn't a bug, it's a feature.

Yes, there are probably a lot of Trump voters who only voted trump because Republican, and who would vote for a brick wall if it had an elephant painted on it in red (and no, I do not think this is solely the domain of the GOP. The Dems almost certainly have a sizable number of those kind of unthinking automatons as well) but for a whole swath of the GOP voters, especially those who wouldn't normally vote, the fact that he's a sleazy unrepentant ******* who courts white supremacists and does unspeakable things like mock the disabled is the whole point.

He's a "maverick" who "triggers the libs" and "fights the Socialist-Commie-Black-Loving-snowflakes". The whole appeal of Trump to this not inconsiderate portion of the country is that he is a vile human being. If this race had been between two whitebread non-threatening types, one vaguely "liberal" and one conservative (say, Biden Vs Kasich, or even Biden Vs Romney) then this would have been a much different race. The fact is the GOP deliberately held their nose and did a cannonball into the cess pit of the US to win, and even if they lose (which looks likely), the fact that the smell will not wash out, possibly for a few decades among the moderate and left leaning sectors of the US doesn't matter, because they have managed to bring out of the woodwork all the vile people to back them who LIKE the smell.

The GOP plan was to not only get all the conservative votes they normally would anyway, and all the right-leaning normal people who would be a perfectly reasonable sector of the electorate, but also to appeal to the kind of people who still think that gays should be kept out of sight if not outright persecuted, that people of colour are lesser and that "Socialism" is what is killing people around the world.

As long as the GOP courts them, these people are not going to go away as much as it would be lovely if they did. These people have always been there but they have never really had a voice outside of the most loony portions of the party. Now even the normal reasonable and moral conservatives in the party are throwing their weight behind the outlier nutjobs in the party the GOP may end up splitting. I hope the GOP ends up splitting. Having a legitimate, reasonable and responsible conservative party in the US who is not willing to get into bed with the CT inspired scumbags like the Trump dynasty and that lunatic woman who thinks the democrats are all paedophile satan worshipers would be a great thing, and all those nutbars should strike out on their own to form a third party.

Just image it if in 4 or 8 years time the GOP fractures and the normal people who just happen to disagree with the people like Biden and Harris become their own party. Suddenly all the automatic elephant button pushers would go into this other party (call them the Eagle party, if you will) and the elephant will grow smaller and smaller as only the really insane people are supporting them. The people who I detailed above who think Trump's disgusting personality is a plus, not an unfortunate side effect of having a winner. They will push the sad, tattered remains of the GOP further and further to the right until they only represent the Proud Boys and the Qanon freaks. Then, the proud, moral and honest Conservatives who I suspect are the true GOP majority will be able to jettison them from the discussion entirely and the US will once again have two differing but ultimately sane parties vying for the country.

THAT is what I hope that this mess of an electoral nightmare brings about. THAT would be the real victory for the USA.
 
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TragicMonkey said:
It's because we weren't made in one particular region in France.
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I get that you're most probably making a subtle (and hopefully good natured) dig at a common argumentative device of mine, but the funny thing is... you're kind of right.

My biggest problem with the whole fetish the internet political fandoms have for stopping a discussion every 6 seconds with "NO! Stop! Everybody stop and define where everyone is on the Left to Right chart! We have to sort this out before we go any further!" demand is that... we're using old definitions.

Socialism, Communism, Libertarianism, the whole "Left to Right" thing... these concepts all solidified in the accepted usage (although to be sure concepts of them existed long before) in that whole post Monarchy thing in Europe in the 1800s and I don't know if they slot into modern politics as easily as people think they do.
 
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The trump campaign is pushing the "Pennsylvania voter fraud"-lie hard at the moment.

They're doing a press conference in an hours time, and Giuliani, who I gather is trump's lawyer, is apparently also heading for Philadelphia.

I wouldn't rule out a "Brooks Brothers riot" repeat sometime in the near future.
 
CNN has called Wisconsin for Biden. 237 to 213.

Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, and Michigan still in play.
 
GA is pretty well in reach for Biden. 250k ballots in ATL and only 80k lead for trump.
 
Trump may have gotten one of Maine's EC votes, some are calling it, some aren't. Probably won't matter with the rest of the states in play.
 
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