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2020 Presidential Election

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Yeah, but unfortunately, this kind of reasoning doesn't work in Trumpistan. He will literally point to things happening in American right now and say, with a straight face, "You see! This is what happens in Biden's America!"

I mean, if they're happening in Blue enclaves, under the jurisdiction of Blue governments, then kinda, yeah.

You can't run around Seattle yelling "nOt mY PrEsIdEnT!" and then complain when someone points at CHOP and says that's what your president has to offer.
 
That is an act of war against the traditional American nation, and all bets are off.

Damn right!
*shoves the white nationalist out of the shot, takes over*

Lemme tell you, if there's one thing I'm tired of, it's these lazy Europeans always showing up, stealing all the land and locking many of us original Americans, like my family that's been here going back to who even knows when, out of the good jobs.

Except the jews who kept getting shoved around in Europe. Most of them are cool. The Hasidic community in NYC is kinda annoying overall, but aside from them...

But all you Irish, and Eye-Talians, running your mouths about potato famines and how you bought up the suburbs, it's time to pay up! Especially to us black folks who built this county, and the Native Americans you stole from!

*glances at ST*

What's your problem? Why don't you go back to Europe? Or move to Antarctica or something, I don't care, but leave your money here. Go on, scram. Get out of my country.

(Oh, and ST? Don't bother replying, I'm just using using you for a joke, I don't actually care what y'all white nationalists have to say.)
 
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My attitude about this country is a reaction to what the other side has done to it. The other side are a bunch of mentally ill anarchists and they have been burning down countless cities for months. They violently attack people they can identify as, or just suspect of being, on the other side politically. They also just assault people for not being openly, forcefully on board with whatever they're pushing.
YOU MADE ME DO IT!! Yeah, the last time I heard that was on the kindergarten playground.
 
I mean, if they're happening in Blue enclaves, under the jurisdiction of Blue governments, then kinda, yeah.

You can't run around Seattle yelling "nOt mY PrEsIdEnT!" and then complain when someone points at CHOP and says that's what your president has to offer.

But you absolutely ******* CAN. These protests are about AUTHORITARIAN rule. They are the result of centuries of racism and discrimination.

Trump even incites violence. Trump has no interest is resolving how unfair our system is to minorities. In fact Trump and his cabal have suggested that systemic racism is a myth.

How would you react if you and everyone who looks like you were mistreated and even killed by by the police?

Now you can think it is right to quash dissent with an iron fist. If the people can not express their grievances what is America?
 
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My Republican friends are very invested in the Shy Voter theory but I'm not buying it. Sure, they will avoid yard signs or bumper stickers because of the hate directed towards them but I don't think this extends to the polls, at least not to the extent of 8%. I'm looking for a Biden win tomorrow, maybe close, maybe not.
 
I mean, if they're happening in Blue enclaves, under the jurisdiction of Blue governments, then kinda, yeah.

You can't run around Seattle yelling "nOt mY PrEsIdEnT!" and then complain when someone points at CHOP and says that's what your president has to offer.

I don’t think this is a very good point for a few reasons. But I’ll go with this one:

He says it’s Bidens America, but reelect for Trump and then what changes? He’s had a summer to do whatever it is he’ll do differently than Biden and it’s all still going on. If Trump could do something about it he would have. Its just another example of Trump pointing fingers when he can’t get the job done.
 
I would not be at all surprised by a quick Trump consession... not just because I don't think he really wants to stay President, but also because, even if he does, he's been hearing everybody say he definitely won't do it, and would see doing it as a way to prove them wrong.

I doubt that. He lives in an nearly impenetrable bubble. All who were not yes-men are long gone.
 
The true threat? Lol

My attitude about this country is a reaction to what the other side has done to it.

Mmm. So, to poke at something a bit tangential - not too long ago, Fox News was sued after spouting completely false and harmful claims that the host made up on the spot. Their defense? In short, they argued in court that no reasonable, well informed viewer would believe the things that they say. Not only did they argue that, though, they won their defense after very convincingly demonstrating that no reasonable, well informed person would trust them to tell the truth.

Fox, and all the rest of the right wing media that has looked to them for guidance, views its viewers as ignorant, gullible fools... and, if I recall correctly, Fox was also quite celebrating a poll that showed that viewers of Fox trust Fox more than viewers of any other network, even if Fox was the least trusted of all major media sources in general.




The other side are a bunch of mentally ill anarchists and they have been burning down countless cities for months. They violently attack people they can identify as, or just suspect of being, on the other side politically. They also just assault people for not being openly, forcefully on board with whatever they're pushing.

They want to get rid of police. They openly hate people for being white and hate this country and its history. They openly talk about disenfranchising and punishing people for being white.

Then I come along and say "this country has gone nuts and the whole thing is made illegitimate by these people's influence on the system, do whatever it takes to deny these lunatics power" and that makes me the "true threat?"

Bonkers.

Mmm. Those things you speak of are indeed concerning things... and they would be far more concerning if they were actually meaningfully true. When Fox News, for example, literally repeatedly broadcasted old tape of fires that had actually happened half the country away from the protests that they were supposedly talking about as they attempted to delegitimize the protests, I suppose that one could be forgiven for being misled. As for defunding police? Would it at all surprise you to hear that the Trump Administration has literally tried to defund the police every single year? And that the Republicans have been actively working to defund and generally make defunct, for example, just about all the law enforcement that actually hold the rich and powerful to account for quite a fair while now? Your complaints are understandable - but far more based in manipulated emotion than reality.
 
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I mean, if they're happening in Blue enclaves, under the jurisdiction of Blue governments, then kinda, yeah.

You can't run around Seattle yelling "nOt mY PrEsIdEnT!" and then complain when someone points at CHOP and says that's what your president has to offer.

But CHOP happened under President Trump.

It's not just Blue states having issues with Covid right now. If the argument is that Biden will have the blame for the drastic measures necessary to contain the pandemic, then it's fair to say that Trump has the blame for the uncontrolled state of the pandemic right now.
 
Historically, when Trump has lost at something, he's declared bankruptcy, bumbled on to the next thing, and talked bigly about how about how yuge of a win he had.

I expect more of the same here.

Given the deficit under Trump - even before the pandemic - he's already done that.
 
My Republican friends are very invested in the Shy Voter theory but I'm not buying it. Sure, they will avoid yard signs or bumper stickers because of the hate directed towards them but I don't think this extends to the polls, at least not to the extent of 8%. I'm looking for a Biden win tomorrow, maybe close, maybe not.

If you go to 538, Nate Silver debunks "the shy voter" hypothesis.
 
Now you can think it is right to quash dissent with an iron fist. If the people can not express their grievances what is America?

Fallacy of the excluded middle. You can protest without the burning and looting.
 
No argument here, however, the turning point was the Heller decision written by Scalia that enshrined a *personal* right to own a gun. To give him some credit (although it hurts :)) I doubt he was influenced by the right wing mob so much as his abiding dedication to originialism. I just wish he'd gone all the way and stated that the 2nd decision he made only applied to blunderbusses.

Mmm. You give him a bit more credit there than I. But then... by my view, "originalism," in actual practice, is little more than a cheap cover for right-wing/pro-corporate judicial activism, in practice, and generally discarded at will.
 
Trump accuses Obama and Biden of treason, then mocks law enforcement officials who resist politicizing investigations.

'''We don't want to do anything before the election', well, what about me!, and you know who we caught? Barack Hussein Obama and sleepy Joe Biden."

Trump is now promising that the coronavirus vaccine will be available in "a couple of weeks,"
 
Obama in Miami
"Last night, this is last night on his Covid spreader tour ... because nothing is more important to him than crowds to make him feel good ... last night he told his supporters, 'don't tell anyone but I'm gonna fire Dr Fauci after the election.' Don't boo - vote"

"There was a Biden-Harris bus in TX & they were surrounded by Trump cars & supporters & at some point it got dangerous...POTUS can't be responsible for every single person out there, but he didn't say that's wrong...he said, 'yeah, that's great..imagine if I had done that"
 
Fallacy of the excluded middle. You can protest without the burning and looting.

To be fair, I don't think that protesters and rioters are always, or even very often, the same people. A protest can be analogous to a party where everyone is invited, and it doesn't take long to regret who shows up.
 
The point isn't anybody's feelings. It's that engaging in the culture war the way the left has long been doing so proves that they simply can't be reasoned with. It's so entirely & flagrantly dishonest & irrational that it makes the left appear as if we must not have any honest & rational points on our side, because if we did then we'd use those instead.

What reason does your opponent have to listen to you if all you've ever done before is prove to that same opponent, over & over again, that you completely refuse to deal with any actual issues & facts that might get in the way of a chance to work in some more of those precious all-important personal attacks? Even if your attempts to merely insult people into submission (which has never ever worked but has been known to do the opposite) didn't hurt their feelings, they'd still be clogging up a discourse that should have some facts & reason somewhere in it.

To even pretend that any of this was ever about "hurt feelings" in the first place is just more of the same dishonest personal attackery that gets us nowhere (which whoever I was responding to in the first place claimed nobody on the left ever does :rolleyes: )

You can continue with more that same old kind of useless transparent nonsense that's been accomplishing nothing all along, or you can try to shift to something else that might actually help (or at least quit contributing to the harm).

Go find a box of tissues and take this bull **** with when you leave.
 
To be fair, I don't think that protesters and rioters are always, or even very often, the same people. A protest can be analogous to a party where everyone is invited, and it doesn't take long to regret who shows up.

That ISN'T FAIR....andit doesn't make them the same. You just find it as a convenient and lazy excuse.
 
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