Ten million people. Why can't anyone get the damn atrocity straight?!
Iran leader: Holocaust a 'myth'
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a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
IIRC, he is not a puppet of the Mad Mullahs, but his own form of populist madness.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Yes, really.
Another comment about this, from the "Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1666871,00.html
The pertinent point is:
Suddenly, the usual apologetics won't work. No one can say Iran's president was really complaining about Israel or Zionism, rather than Jews. No one can say he was talking about the west's colonial crimes. He was peddling, instead, one of the defining tropes of the racist hard right: Holocaust denial. It is a stance that seeks to deny Jews their history, their suffering, almost their very being. Like denying that African-Americans were ever slaves, it is a move made by those who wish only harm.
In this light, Ahmadinejad's previous musings look rather different. When, in October, he stood beneath a banner that promised "A world without Zionism" and called for Israel to be "wiped off the map", many Jews felt a chill at what seemed an annihilationist fantasy. Cooler heads said no, this was merely the hyperbolic style of the region, deployed to press a robust anti-Zionist rather than anti-semitic case. What he wanted, they explained patiently, was a world without Zionism, not a world without Jews.
Well, now I'm done with the charitable explanations.
Well, this is all very well, and he is quite right. But what the author of this column, Jonathan Freedland, is freely admitting, is that until now he was taking seriously the chariable explanations--"it's just anti-zionism", "it's just anti-colonialism", "it's just for internal consumption", "it's because of the occupation", etc., etc. NOW he finds out that, as he says later, he "can no longer deny" that "the virus of antisemitism had infected the Muslim world"?
Hellllllllllllllloooooooooooo???? Anybody home? Where has he been for the last, oh, 100 years?
Wake up, folks. All those are merely excuses. When you defend "Palestinian Liberation" or "Iranian anti-Colonialism" or whatever the euphemism is, you are defending genocidal Islamic antisemitism. Don't like it? Tough.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1666871,00.html
The pertinent point is:
Suddenly, the usual apologetics won't work. No one can say Iran's president was really complaining about Israel or Zionism, rather than Jews. No one can say he was talking about the west's colonial crimes. He was peddling, instead, one of the defining tropes of the racist hard right: Holocaust denial. It is a stance that seeks to deny Jews their history, their suffering, almost their very being. Like denying that African-Americans were ever slaves, it is a move made by those who wish only harm.
In this light, Ahmadinejad's previous musings look rather different. When, in October, he stood beneath a banner that promised "A world without Zionism" and called for Israel to be "wiped off the map", many Jews felt a chill at what seemed an annihilationist fantasy. Cooler heads said no, this was merely the hyperbolic style of the region, deployed to press a robust anti-Zionist rather than anti-semitic case. What he wanted, they explained patiently, was a world without Zionism, not a world without Jews.
Well, now I'm done with the charitable explanations.
Well, this is all very well, and he is quite right. But what the author of this column, Jonathan Freedland, is freely admitting, is that until now he was taking seriously the chariable explanations--"it's just anti-zionism", "it's just anti-colonialism", "it's just for internal consumption", "it's because of the occupation", etc., etc. NOW he finds out that, as he says later, he "can no longer deny" that "the virus of antisemitism had infected the Muslim world"?
Hellllllllllllllloooooooooooo???? Anybody home? Where has he been for the last, oh, 100 years?
Wake up, folks. All those are merely excuses. When you defend "Palestinian Liberation" or "Iranian anti-Colonialism" or whatever the euphemism is, you are defending genocidal Islamic antisemitism. Don't like it? Tough.
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...and the blaming of the jews. I mean, it's a bit like this:
IDIOT: "Now, we agree, I supported you because you want peace and your rights, right?"
AFARAT & CO.: "Actually, we want a second holocaust. But thanks for the support, sucker."
I: "You mean you just want to kill the 'zionists', right? We all agree it's OK to kill all of them, but we're not antisemitic, are we?"
A: "Nope. That's an excuse. We really just hate the jews. It's a Jihad against them. Read the Hamas charter, the Iranian leader's speeches, the Saudi press, and..."
I: "Stop it! You are NOT an antisemite! I ORDER you!"
A: "Bye, sucker. Oh, and thanks for all that tax money your govenrment gave us--it really helped us buy lots of guns for jew-killing."
...I mean, wouldn't you feel like a damn fool for having supported a murderous thug whose goal is genocide for so long, who--in addition--made it crystal clear that that is his goal from the start? (You must admit that they, like Hitler, gave us all fair warning--but the fools wouldn't listen.)
It's a bit like getting married and finding out your spouse is really a vampire, and, what's worse, that she told you so but you married her anyway because you chose not to believer her for no better reason than you not wanting it to be true.
To stop feeling a fool, which you richly deserve, there are two ways:
First, claim that despite everything, they don't really mean it.
Second, find anything and everything you can that is bad with the jews (*cough* *cough* "zionists" *cough* "neo-cons" wink wink, nudge nudge) to make your stupidity less painful by convincing yourself that, after all, they had it coming, so you weren't really supporting an evil genocidal thugocracy but a "liberation movement".
Both these methods are employed continously by the idiots in this forum, who shall remain unnamed...
zenith-nadir
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I'll tell ya what, while some of you debate the difference between Farsi and Arabic and how Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may have been "unfairly" misquoted by us Westerners I shall look into his actions. For actions speak louder than words. Right?
But enough praising President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, what's he up to these days other than being unfairly misquoted by us Westerners.
That is who Hamas is, that is who Khalid Mashal represents and that is who President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad supports, when he's not denying the holocaust and asking for Israel to be moved to Europe that is.
{edited to add}
We now return you to the "Ahmadinejad may have been misquoted" debate....
Gosh...I am warm and fuzzy all over that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's "logic is awakening consciences" and that he has "nothing against the followers of Judaism".
But enough praising President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, what's he up to these days other than being unfairly misquoted by us Westerners.
Ok....so if I take that at face value, who is Hamas?
{emphasis mine}
That is who Hamas is, that is who Khalid Mashal represents and that is who President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad supports, when he's not denying the holocaust and asking for Israel to be moved to Europe that is.
{edited to add}
We now return you to the "Ahmadinejad may have been misquoted" debate....
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zenith-nadir
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Oh, by the way...very few seem to feel President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was misquoted. Just an FYI.
Or...
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It is also deeply perverse that some people here are so deeply, deeply concerned lest this sack of human excrement be misquoted--"he just said israel is a myth, not the holocaust!"--as if makes the least amount of difference, the "correct" version being nearly as bad, and both being an example of genocidal antisemitic paranoia.
The excuse is that they're not defending him, merely making sure he is quoted correcly for "objectivity"'s sake. This excuse would sound a bit more convincing if it didn't come with a recipocal willingness to always automatically believe the absolute worst about anything israel and/or the USA and/or G. W. Bush said or did.
The truth here, some people here simply have an automatic desire to defend, excuse, or minimize anything bad the Islamist thugs do if at all possible, while they have an automatic desire to blame, accuse, or maximize anything bad israel or the USA do if at all possible.
Their sympathies, behind the thin veil of "concern for objectivity", are rather clear.
The excuse is that they're not defending him, merely making sure he is quoted correcly for "objectivity"'s sake. This excuse would sound a bit more convincing if it didn't come with a recipocal willingness to always automatically believe the absolute worst about anything israel and/or the USA and/or G. W. Bush said or did.
The truth here, some people here simply have an automatic desire to defend, excuse, or minimize anything bad the Islamist thugs do if at all possible, while they have an automatic desire to blame, accuse, or maximize anything bad israel or the USA do if at all possible.
Their sympathies, behind the thin veil of "concern for objectivity", are rather clear.
zenith-nadir
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The plot sickens.
Oooopps...I forgot to include this from the link:
So the U.S. is really the evil one...out to use the Iranian president's recent statements in it's scheming to invade Iran and Syria. I get it now....it's all so clear.
So the U.S. is really the evil one...out to use the Iranian president's recent statements as "additional grounds for aggression". I get it now....it's all becoming so clear. I sure am glad Mahathir Mohamad & President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are around to expose the "truth".
Oooopps...I forgot to include this from the link:
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
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And sadly, there are millions who think just like him.
Gosh...if only Israel would finally be destroyed and then all would be right in the world.
Israel is just ruining it for everyone.
It's like saying a murder victim, by carring money in her purse, is causing problems because a psychopath stabs her and takes her money.
Blame the murder victim!
We know, scientifically, how politicians lead the masses on hateful cruscades against small minorities -- authorize me the power to clobber them and I'll make your lives better, I promise!
This is a well-understood technique. Indeed, this particular dynamic has been well-understood long before there was science.
And yet, masses, supposedly intelligent, and in free countries, fall right into it all over again. This time on a continental scale. Two and a half continents, so far.
"If only that power hungry politician down there in Iran got what he wanted, then all the masses he's leading on hatefilled cruscades will stop blowing us up. What's Israel to us anyway?"
Yes, I'm looking at you guys, 74% of Europeans.
It's on days like this that I wish everyone at the State Department were a John Bolton clone. Instead of saying "we're deeply concerned" or whatever some senior person at State should say, "Hey, what a great idea! We'll move Israel to the Sudetenland and everyone will be happy."
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negativ
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But it's only fair that Iran be allowed to have nukes, because
[berkeley]
DUBYUH SI TEH EVAL CHIMPY MCHALLIBURTON BU$HITLER!!!!!!!1111
[/berkeley]
But don't just take my word for it!
zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/
plindboe
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And sadly, there are millions who think just like him.
Gosh...if only Israel would finally be destroyed and then all would be right in the world.
Israel is just ruining it for everyone.
I'd probably have had to answer Israel too if I had participated in such a sucky poll, as I consider the israeli/palestinian conflict to be fueling a potential future world war between the west and the middle east. That doesn't mean that I have anything against jews or the existance of Israel, or that I agree with the iranian looney in charge. In short, your linkage between "millions who think just like him" and that stupid poll is a strawman. Try some decent arguments instead, usually works better on a skeptics board.
ZeeGerman
Graduate Poster
Yes. I would not be surprised if he sees himself as the Mahdi.
The Dakodas, Manny, the Dakotas. We can give them a two fer.
zenith-nadir
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I'll tell ya what guys. Forget the eeeevil European poll you are attacking. (Just an FYI I referenced it because many people polled felt Israel is "a threat to world peace" when I feel folks like President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are the real threat to world peace.)
I hereby relinquish all claims to the eeevil poll.
Now that that poll is out of the way let's stick with my other posts in this thread. How do guys feel about what President Mahmoud "the holocaust was a hoax" Ahmadinejad said or what Mahathir "Jews rule the world by proxy" Mohamad said?
Thank you.
Well, if the translations are correct (and I think that it is more likely than not), then they are either very uneducated or rabid anti-semites, or both.