When did "woman" become an adjective?

[Emily's Cat]

A catress or a cator, amongst the pigeonettes or the pigeonmen?

A reproductively intact female cat is called a queen; a reproductively intact male cat is called a tom. If the cat is neutered or spayed, it's just a cat, as is any feline of unknown reproductive status.

 

[Chanakya]

Queen, really?

Is that you speaking, or is that your cat at the keyboard trying to get us to swallow that?

 

[TragicMonkey]

A reproductively intact female cat is called a queen; a reproductively intact male cat is called a tom. If the cat is neutered or spayed, it's just a cat, as is any feline of unknown reproductive status.

Nonsense. The proper terms for cats are: an annoyance, a rageball, a spithissy, a purrfloppy, and an aloof. All are based not upon the cat's reproductive capabilities but upon their actions (or lack thereof, and few things can be so lacking in actions than a cat. There are rocks that are positively buzzing whirlwinds of activity by comparison to an inactive cat).

 

[Emily's Cat]

Queen, really?

Is that you speaking, or is that your cat at the keyboard trying to get us to swallow that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#:~:text=A%20male%20cat%20is%20called,referred%20to%20as%20a%20kitten.

A male cat is called a tom or tomcat (or a gib, if neutered) An unspayed female is called a queen, especially in a cat-breeding context.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Nonsense. The proper terms for cats are: an annoyance, a rageball, a spithissy, a purrfloppy, and an aloof. All are based not upon the cat's reproductive capabilities but upon their actions (or lack thereof, and few things can be so lacking in actions than a cat. There are rocks that are positively buzzing whirlwinds of activity by comparison to an inactive cat).

Yes to all of those!

 

[arthwollipot]

Sometimes when describing a person doing a job, it's shorthand to add in their gender, too. The whole world need not become asexual in the name of political correctness.

Why not? If their gender isn't relevant to their job, why mention it at all? As SB says, it's not shorthand, you're adding unnecessary information.

If someone finds it offensive, bag it. But it is not necessarily a universal slam to incorporate gender in a descriptor.

I don't find it offensive. But I believe that a less-gender-divided world is a better world, and less gender-specific language is better language. So I try always to degenderise the language I use.

(note there, because if I don't say this someone won't get it, that I didn't once say in that paragraph what I think anybody else should be doing, only describing what I do.)

 

[arthwollipot]

What's a "real writer", anyway?

A figure of speech.

 

[arthwollipot]

I would suggest that there is no gendered term that cold not be replaced with a non-gendered term, unless the specification of gender is not directly relevant to the term.

No-one appears to have picked that particular error up but me, but there's the correction anyway.

 

[theprestige]

A figure of speech.

I'm with you so far. What's it mean, other than "a writer who avoids the problem"?

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm with you so far. What's it mean, other than "a writer who avoids the problem"?

This question is a little bit sealiony, but it's a riff off the old (and sexist) book title "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche". It doesn't mean anything in particular. Figures of speech rarely do. It's merely a way of saying that it's better, generally, to write around the problem.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I would suggest that there is no gendered term that cold not be replaced with a non-gendered term...

I've got a lot of non-gendered terms that I use regularly. But I'm stuck at the niece/nephew and aunt/uncle line on this one.

 

[arthwollipot]

I've got a lot of non-gendered terms that I use regularly. But I'm stuck at the niece/nephew and aunt/uncle line on this one.

Well spotted! You could always go with "my sibling's child" or "my parent's sibling" but that's a bit clunky. A single nongendered word would be better. I suspect that, like alternative pronouns, several have been suggested but have not caught on for general use.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Well spotted! You could always go with "my sibling's child" or "my parent's sibling" but that's a bit clunky. A single nongendered word would be better. I suspect that, like alternative pronouns, several have been suggested but have not caught on for general use.

The person who was my nephew when they were a child is now my niece, and it becomes exceedingly difficult to talk about their childhood in a way that doesn't break my brain. A gender-neutral term would be far more useful.

I'm considering "niesfew" or "niephling".

My mother's siblings however... "ancle" or "untie" just don't really roll off the tongue very well.

 

[theprestige]

Well spotted! You could always go with "my sibling's child" or "my parent's sibling" but that's a bit clunky. A single nongendered word would be better. I suspect that, like alternative pronouns, several have been suggested but have not caught on for general use.

A real writer would use niece and nephew so that his readers could easily understand what he's talking about and move on with the story.

 

[arthwollipot]

A real writer would use niece and nephew so that his readers could easily understand what he's talking about and move on with the story.

It'd be a challenge, but yeah, I'm sure someone with good wordsmithing skills could do it.

Also, you just assumed that the writer is male. Don't know if you noticed that.

 

[theprestige]

It'd be a challenge, but yeah, I'm sure someone with good wordsmithing skills could do it.

Also, you just assumed that the writer is male. Don't know if you noticed that.

Someone with a good wordsmithing skill might want to save it for developing plot and story and character, rather than wasting time on baroque excursions into alternate forms of "nephew".

Also, I assumed nothing. I would never do CJ Cherryh and Martha Wells dirty like that. It was an intentional artistic choice. Which I note you appreciate in the spirit in which it was intended.

 

[arthwollipot]

Someone with a good wordsmithing skill might want to save it for developing plot and story and character, rather than wasting time on baroque excursions into alternate forms of "nephew".

I reckon that a good wordsmith can waste their time on whatever they want to.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

In English, as well as most languages, pretty much ANY noun can be used as an adjective. (Or stick "ly" at the end and use it as an adverb too.) E.g., just so "woman" doesn't seem like such an exception, we use "man" as an adjective regularly in stuff like "man flu", "man boobs", "man trap", "man bun", "man ponytail", etc. Or in plural in stuff like "men folk", "men cologne", etc. Or other forms like "boy band", "boy school", "boy scouts", etc.

But basically any noun will do in a pinch, if you can use it as an adjective. In fact, it's normal grammar and used every day. E.g., just to list a few of the most common off the top of my head: "car sickness", or for that matter "sea sickness, "jet lag", "monitor glare", "music charts", "mouse wheel", "skull cap", "fanny pack", "bubble wrap", "internet browser", "cruise ship", "bed bugs", "infant mortality", "birth pain", "frigate captain", "manual page", "pocket protector", "microwave oven", "network cable", "bus ticket", "duck whistle", "varmint rifle", "rat poison", "cat flap", "dog whistle", "fox fur", "bearskin rug", "toilet brush", "kitchen sink", "shower curtain", "door mat", "winter coat", "beach body", "beer gut", "ski boots", "snow plough", "champagne bottle", "satellite dish", etc.

Sure, some of those add an unnecessary level of detail, and often in a derogatory manner. E.g., I'm not sure it's necessary to specify that someone has a "man flu", since the virus is the exact same for all humans. E.g., I'm not sure it's necessary to specify that someone has a "beer gut", since there are lots of other ways to get a liver failure that causes that shape, e.g., just by getting hepatitis or via malnutrition. (I'm pretty sure that those children in Africa that show up in photos with thin limbs and a huge belly didn't get that way by drinking beer.)

But none of those nouns needs any special permission or anything to be used as an adjective. It's just normal grammar.

But I guess when some people run out of other ideas to complain about, whining about being subject to the same grammar as everything else will have to do in a pinch

 

[TragicMonkey]

In English, as well as most languages, pretty much ANY noun can be used as an adjective.

donkey butter
explosion sex
cat waffles
sex donkey
wagon smell
power crap
crap explosion
cat explosion
waffle walrus
sex walrus

Yep, checks out. I just hope nobody experiences all of the above items on the same day, that would really wear one out. But what a way to go!

 

[arthwollipot]

But I guess when some people run out of other ideas to complain about, whining about being subject to the same grammar as everything else will have to do in a pinch

But we like whining about grammar!