Predction: Trump will be pardoned by Biden if he wins

rockysmith76 said:
the lefties, I never mentioned race, so spare me the race baiting
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No, I mentioned minorities and you quoted my post. I did not mention lefties. Your post was a non sequitor, and you do seem overly sensitive. Your attempts to rile “progressives“ are not having the effects you desire. Does that upset you?
 
Steve said:
No, I mentioned minorities and you quoted my post. I did not mention lefties. Your post was a non sequitor, and you do seem overly sensitive. Your attempts to rile “progressives“ are not having the effects you desire. Does that upset you?
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Race baiting is simply an indication of your apparent obsession
 
ChristianProgressive said:
Biden sent a great big signal with the his statements to the press about is candidcy being about "healing" and "reconciliation". Nowhere in his statements is he talking about seeking justice for the treasonous crimes comitted by the regime.

I could be wrong. I hope I am. But the ticket is solidly Centrist, and the convention only gave progressive voices one real speaker who got short changed on time.

I will really be holding my nose to vote Blue this year. But Trump is on the verge of snuffing out American Democracy altogether and has to be stopped.
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I have the same worry about Biden.

I think ultimately in the end Trump will get away with everything scott-free, like he has always done it in the past. He has a long history of messing things up and then just walking away without consequences.

I really feel Biden will try to "normalize" things in this country by capitulating to the Republicans as much as possible. We have seen a preview of this happening at the DNC already, and it doesn't make me hopeful... :(
 
Boudicca90 said:
I have the same worry about Biden.

I think ultimately in the end Trump will get away with everything scott-free, like he has always done it in the past. He has a long history of messing things up and then just walking away without consequences.

I really feel Biden will try to "normalize" things in this country by capitulating to the Republicans as much as possible. We have seen a preview of this happening at the DNC already, and it doesn't make me hopeful... :(
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You will not a liberal in, they dont represent a majority view point, never have.
 
rockysmith76 said:
Race baiting, duh...
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Well gee. I guess an obsession would be indicated in these forums by numerous posts on a topic, Perhaps you could identify several of mine in order to demonstrate a pattern. If you can do that you may get me to agree to an obsession that I have not yet realized I have.

I do like the “duh...” though. A definite indicator of a reasoned response.

I do suggest taking this to a new thread though, if you wish to demonstrate my obsession. It has nothing to do with Biden pardoning Trump, or not. Come to think of it, your hyperbolic post about progressives had nothing to do with the topic either. I should not have responded and I am going to drop this sidetrack in this thread. Start a new one. I will see you there.
 
Foster Zygote said:
He's like an amoral Forest Gump.
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Well put. :D

I've been watching a lot of videos about various dictators and tyrants throughout history and the thing that stuck out to me is they are rarely punished for their crimes. Often they flee and live the remainder of their lives in comfort and peace.

History shows karma doesn't exist.
 
shuttlt said:
I'm really not sure that abortion is central to his approval. Be that as it may, Nixon's approval went down to 24% with 60% and rising of the public agreeing he needed to go. So it's clearly possible for a scandle to get a President down to a level where both sides agree they need to go.


Maybe I should rephrase. You need to convince enough of the population that he is bad enough that he needs to go/be convicted of something big. It may be that he is in fact having nightly séances in which he receives guidance from Hitler. If for whatever reason you fail to convince people that that is the case, then your conviction that he is a horrible monster is no good. Unless you convince enough people that he is so terrible that he should be removed, or convicted of something significant.... the political cost of doing that is too high and it won't happen. That is the practical reality.


It's funny, the view on the right of centre folks I interact with is that they believe the left are misguided/naive and that the left view them as evil. They take the accusations like "anybody who voted for Trump is a racist/knowingly supports racism" as an implication that they are terrible people. Again, it's not important though since the political reality is that unless you convince a good number of them that any significant legal consequence for Trump are not politically motivated, then you'll have a huge number of people convinced that it was a political hit.

What would you think if Trump fitted up Obama and had him carted off to prison? Would that have been a divisive thing to do? Would there be long term consequences for him doing that? They will see it in exactly the same way and the consequences will be the same.

I don't see how to quantify the consequences of doing such a thing. What strategic benefit would there be for the Democrats in opening up all that chaos to go after an already defeated opponent? Why make Trump the centre of attention? Why martyr him? The best punishment for Trump is for him to lose relevance. You'd be making the Biden administration the Trump show act 2.
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Why would a majority approval of the populace be needed before initiating an otherwise legally justified prosecution?

That would imply that Justice is hostage to popular referendum.

If, say, Trump raped and then murdered an intern inside the WH, left sufficient evidence to warrant a criminal investigation, but his various and sundry enablers managed to convince the ~40% that make up his base that it's a frame-up. Once Donnie leaves office, is he still immune just because enough credulous followers might raise a stink? Seems rather like Lady Justice not being blind, and there being very clearly a different kind of law for some--or one.

Some gangsters of the '30s enjoyed no small sympathy and even support from the larger community, but this didn't stop the Law from vigorously attempting to hold the bad guys to account. This should hold at the largest scale. Once objective, legal process is discarded, trust is lost and the system is broken.

That some fraction of the people, by don't of ill informed passion alone, should have the power to keep a criminal free of consequences, and thereby thwart both the long arm of the law (singularly important in its own right) and the will of the majority is a form of mob rule that bespeaks of a morally weakened State.
 
Boudicca90 said:
I have the same worry about Biden.

I think ultimately in the end Trump will get away with everything scott-free, like he has always done it in the past. He has a long history of messing things up and then just walking away without consequences.

I really feel Biden will try to "normalize" things in this country by capitulating to the Republicans as much as possible. We have seen a preview of this happening at the DNC already, and it doesn't make me hopeful... :(
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Is whether or not Trump gets away with "it" really the most important thing? What cost in terms of slitting the country further would be acceptable to make sure he's punished?
 
rockysmith76 said:
You will not a liberal in, they dont represent a majority view point, never have.
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You might want to review the level of support for progressive, liberal policies, and the desire for societal progress, among USAians.

I mean, consider gay marriage, and the acceptance of gays in the military. Only a very short time ago this was heretical to contemplate.

A majority want a health care system nearer to that of all the other developed nations.

A majority desire racial equality. Or at least comity.

It's a minority who desire to remain fixed in the past, fearful of change. But in the long march of humanity through history, the general, inexorable course has been toward progress. Such hiccups as Hitlerism and Trumpism are brief, backward steps. As long as Man doesn't really pull the plug with catastrophic climate wreckage, or a global nuclear war, the expectation of this social creature's further evolution is in the main to betterment.
 
shuttlt said:
Is whether or not Trump gets away with "it" really the most important thing? What cost in terms of slitting the country further would be acceptable to make sure he's punished?
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The country is already split, and the split is going to get worse regardless.

I'm of the opinion that the reconciliation during Reconstruction was a horrible idea. It just kicked the can down the road and now we are dealing with the consequences. This is a fight that has been brewing for a while, even before Trump, and we need to nip it in the bud now.

The same will happen if we try to make peace with the far-right in this country, so we need to make Trump an example by thoroughly destroying him.
 
Lurch said:
You might want to review the level of support for progressive, liberal policies, and the desire for societal progress, among USAians.

I mean, consider gay marriage, and the acceptance of gays in the military. Only a very short time ago this was heretical to contemplate.

A majority want a health care system nearer to that of all the other developed nations.

A majority desire racial equality. Or at least comity.

It's a minority who desire to remain fixed in the past, fearful of change. But in the long march of humanity through history, the general, inexorable course has been toward progress. Such hiccups as Hitlerism and Trumpism are brief, backward steps. As long as Man doesn't really pull the plug with catastrophic climate wreckage, or a global nuclear war, the expectation of this social creature's further evolution is in the main to betterment.
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Brief, but expensive in money and lives.

This so called hiccup could be more serious than you imagine. Authoritarian governments are on the rise. Democracy was real for a while in Russia. It's as dead there today as it was under Stalin. I'm afraid Americans don't really care much about it. They are willing to follow the grifter.
 
Lurch said:
Why would a majority approval of the populace be needed before initiating an otherwise legally justified prosecution?
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Technically you clearly don't need it. Practically speaking, will the Democrats want the current level of tension and division running through Biden's time in office? Isn't the whole point of Biden that it will be a return to business as usual? Putting Trump away while he still has anything like his current support is just going to keep everything crazy.

This would be the effect on Republicans of going after Trump, if he maintains his popularity, out of office:


Lurch said:
That would imply that Justice is hostage to popular referendum.
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It could be that the politicians and back room deal makers who make these decisions are moral absolutists and will "let justice be done, though the heavens fall", but I really don't think that they are.

Lurch said:
If, say, Trump raped and then murdered an intern inside the WH, left sufficient evidence to warrant a criminal investigation, but his various and sundry enablers managed to convince the ~40% that make up his base that it's a frame-up. Once Donnie leaves office, is he still immune just because enough credulous followers might raise a stink? Seems rather like Lady Justice not being blind, and there being very clearly a different kind of law for some--or one.
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Well, that would be a very difficult situation. I have been talking about convicting him, rather than an investigation. If 40% of the population think he's innocent, what is going to happen at the trial? He'll be let off.

Lurch said:
Some gangsters of the '30s enjoyed no small sympathy and even support from the larger community, but this didn't stop the Law from vigorously attempting to hold the bad guys to account. This should hold at the largest scale. Once objective, legal process is discarded, trust is lost and the system is broken.
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There is no objective legal process. You have to persuade a jury. You have already said that 40% of the population think he's innocent. How are you going to convict him? Will all Republicans be excluded from this fair and objective Jury? If they come to power can they then convict your guy having excluded all Democrats from the Jury?

Lurch said:
That some fraction of the people, by don't of ill informed passion alone, should have the power to keep a criminal free of consequences, and thereby thwart both the long arm of the law (singularly important in its own right) and the will of the majority is a form of mob rule that bespeaks of a morally weakened State.
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Better to have him stay free than convict somebody that 40% of the population think is innocent because you are super certain he is guilty.
 
acbytesla said:
Brief, but expensive in money and lives.

This so called hiccup could be more serious than you imagine. Authoritarian governments are on the rise. Democracy was real for a while in Russia. It's as dead there today as it was under Stalin.
I'm afraid Americans those who vote for Trump don't really care much about it. They are willing to follow the grifter.
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FTFY
 
The J is for Jeenyus said:
Yesterday:



Today:




The walkback has begun.
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OK. Maybe one shouldn't deal in absolutes. I just don't see this happening. What is going to happen that is going to cause Trump's approval to drop down to next to nothing? It could happen that he personally strangles greta thunberg in the rose garden in front of the worlds press. I just really don't think something like that is likely. Maybe somebody has a tape of him on a secret trip to Moscow receiving instructions from Putin. I doubt it.

You aren't going to get him unless he becomes so unpopular that getting him stops being a political issue.
 
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