Predction: Trump will be pardoned by Biden if he wins

What really burns my bacon is that Trump and his cronies might ultimately be allowed to commit muliple acts of TREASON because we as a whole don't want to face the reality that our governing processes are fundamentally broken.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I've certainly seen it suggested that it would be a wise move on his part, and entirely in keeping with history.

As for centrism, going by voting record Kamala Harris is further to the left than Bernie Sanders.
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Huh? How did you come to that conclusion?
 
shuttlt said:
You don't think red states and red judges might take a different view of what a "legitimate" reason might be? Any precedent set here can and will be used by the other side.
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You seem to suggest that any legitimate prosecution of criminal activity by a President once out of office will devolve to purely political, unfounded trials in tit-for-tat actions for all time to come.

Is this a legitimate fear warranting the effective treatment of criminal Presidents as above the Law? How bad must a President be in order to be held to account? Are we to accept that there is no limit?
 
Nova Land said:
Yes.
If he doesn't testify he's guilty of contempt and can be locked up; if he does testify but doesn't testify truthfully he's guilty of perjury and can be locked up; and if he does testify and testifies truthfully a lot of his associates including family members are looking at some serious fines and jail time.
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Trump doesn't care about any of his family, he'd gladly kill them all to escape punishment. He cares even less about his lackeys.
 
acbytesla said:
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion?
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Primarily from listening to the Opening Arguments episode where they did a deep dive into her career and record. You can listen to it here, if you're interested.

Here are the sources they used:

https://www.progressivepunch.org/sc...enate&sort=overall-lifetime&order=down&party=

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/kamala_harris/412678/report-card/2019

I'm sure there are other sources which would quibble over a couple of percentage points here and there, but that's really besides the point when discussing a claim that Biden's ticket is centrist.
 
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Lurch said:
You seem to suggest that any legitimate prosecution of criminal activity by a President once out of office will devolve to purely political, unfounded trials in tit-for-tat actions for all time to come.
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I don't think I said anything about legitimate. One may well feel a prosecution is legally justified. However, the political reality is that unless his support collapses, the political fallout of getting him on something non-trivial - like Treason would be enormous. He still has mid 40s approval. Look at how much Republican's trust the media. Look at the approval of congress. I am very doubtful that this will be seen as anything other than a political move by the majority of Republicans. Based on that, Democrats feeling it is "legitimate" is irrelevant. The downside will be the same as if it were a politically motivated prosecution.

If the idea is to stop a populist getting in again, it would be a lot easier for the Republicans just to update their primary process to prevent it.

Lurch said:
Is this a legitimate fear warranting the effective treatment of criminal Presidents as above the Law? How bad must a President be in order to be held to account? Are we to accept that there is no limit?
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That's easy. The President has to be bad enough that enough of the public turn against him that there is minimal political cost from removing him. You've got a trade off between Democracy, Rule of Law, and practicality here.
 
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shuttlt said:
The President has to be bad enough that enough of the public turn against him that there is minimal political cost from removing him.
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You are incorrect. What you call "bad enough" doesn't matter.

Unfortunately one party realized that if they align themselves with the fact that many Americans have been brainwashed since birth to believe in a creator cult which teaches that human beings have magical ghosts inside of them; therefore early stage abortion destroys a magical ghost. So all that party has to do is hammer home the fact that they are against that and they can literally do anything and still receive 80% support from those people. And, as if they needed an "and", they disingenuously claim that the other party wants to "take all of your guns". (And don't even begin to suggest that they would use fear of the "others"/don't call it racism you racist!)

They can be "bad enough" all they want. The followers will just chalk it up to "there must be a plan, the other side is satanic".


tl;dr We are in a situation where one party has followers that literally believe and are taught in churches across the nation that the other party is satanic.
 
This is The End said:
You are incorrect. What you call "bad enough" doesn't matter.

Unfortunately one party realized that if they align themselves with the fact that many Americans have been brainwashed since birth to believe in a creator cult which teaches that human beings have magical ghosts inside of them; therefore early stage abortion destroys a magical ghost. So all that party has to do is hammer home the fact that they are against that and they can literally do anything and still receive 80% support from those people. And, as if they needed an "and", they disingenuously claim that the other party wants to "take all of your guns". (And don't even begin to suggest that they would use fear of the "others"/don't call it racism you racist!)
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I'm really not sure that abortion is central to his approval. Be that as it may, Nixon's approval went down to 24% with 60% and rising of the public agreeing he needed to go. So it's clearly possible for a scandle to get a President down to a level where both sides agree they need to go.

This is The End said:
They can be "bad enough" all they want. The followers will just chalk it up to "there must be a plan, the other side is satanic".
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Maybe I should rephrase. You need to convince enough of the population that he is bad enough that he needs to go/be convicted of something big. It may be that he is in fact having nightly séances in which he receives guidance from Hitler. If for whatever reason you fail to convince people that that is the case, then your conviction that he is a horrible monster is no good. Unless you convince enough people that he is so terrible that he should be removed, or convicted of something significant.... the political cost of doing that is too high and it won't happen. That is the practical reality.

This is The End said:
tl;dr We are in a situation where one party has followers that literally believe and are taught in churches across the nation that the other party is satanic.
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It's funny, the view on the right of centre folks I interact with is that they believe the left are misguided/naive and that the left view them as evil. They take the accusations like "anybody who voted for Trump is a racist/knowingly supports racism" as an implication that they are terrible people. Again, it's not important though since the political reality is that unless you convince a good number of them that any significant legal consequence for Trump are not politically motivated, then you'll have a huge number of people convinced that it was a political hit.

What would you think if Trump fitted up Obama and had him carted off to prison? Would that have been a divisive thing to do? Would there be long term consequences for him doing that? They will see it in exactly the same way and the consequences will be the same.

I don't see how to quantify the consequences of doing such a thing. What strategic benefit would there be for the Democrats in opening up all that chaos to go after an already defeated opponent? Why make Trump the centre of attention? Why martyr him? The best punishment for Trump is for him to lose relevance. You'd be making the Biden administration the Trump show act 2.
 
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ChristianProgressive said:
Biden sent a great big signal with the his statements to the press about is candidcy being about "healing" and "reconciliation". Nowhere in his statements is he talking about seeking justice for the treasonous crimes comitted by the regime.

I could be wrong. I hope I am. But the ticket is solidly Centrist, and the convention only gave progressive voices one real speaker who got short changed on time.

I will really be holding my nose to vote Blue this year. But Trump is on the verge of snuffing out American Democracy altogether and has to be stopped.
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Progressives are whiney sad imitations of Communism and their sjw platform is utterly worthless, useless and weak.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Honestly if Biden wins in November I don't see Trump making it to the end of 2021.

If Trumps wins he'll keep going on pure hate and spite for the rest of his second term.

As to allegations against Biden, the double standards have already been so well established I don't see the Trumpers losing any sleep over the fact that their leader has openly bragged about more stuff then Biden has even be accused of. It won't bother them in the least.
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I hope Biden wins, but your mindset revolves around nothing more than Orange Man Bad.
 
rockysmith76 said:
Progressives are whiney sad imitations of Communism and their sjw platform is utterly worthless, useless and weak.
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Is this another (unattributed) Trump tweet? Sure looks like one.

Or is it an attempt at parody? If so leave it to Cain. You are not in his league.

The message here is that progress is a bad thing. Americans should cherish living in the past and maintaining all the long established social injustices where minorities knew their place and stayed in it. MAGA!
 
whoanellie said:
I suspect you are correct. Pardoning Trump would be consistent with historical precedent (see Nixon, Richard M.) and with Biden's centrist, waiting-for-the-fever-to-break mindset. The selling-point will be that Biden wants to focus on the future and not the past 4 years.
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I disagree. I think Biden will want to set a new precedent: that even the president is not above the law. That no president can do any damn thing s/he wants to while in office and expect to walk away from it without consequence at the end of their term with a pardon.
 
Steve said:
Is this another (unattributed) Trump tweet? Sure looks like one.

Or is it an attempt at parody? If so leave it to Cain. You are not in his league.

The message here is that progress is a bad thing. Americans should cherish living in the past and maintaining all the long established social injustices where minorities knew their place and stayed in it. MAGA!
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And they want to destroy the economy.
 
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