Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

johnny karate said:
I see a few theories posited based on conflicting witness statements followed by this statement: “The affidavit did not lay out a definitive answer as to what kind of conflict may have arisen”.

If law enforcement could not draw a conclusion, how were you able to?
Click to expand...

It isn't 100% conclusive but we see the shooter hiding in a parking garage as his victim walks by and in the video of the shooting itself, it is clear that the shooter moved on his victim and not the other way around. I think it is pretty reasonable to characterize the confrontation as an ambush.

ETA:
Here's an article from Oregon live:
Michael Reinoehl appeared to target right-wing demonstrator before fatal shooting in Portland, police say

appears to have targeted a participant in a pro-Trump rally, emerging from an alcove of a parking garage before firing two gunshots, one that hit the man’s bear spray can and the other that proved fatal, according to a police affidavit unsealed Friday.
Click to expand...
Reinoehl is seen hiding in an alcove of the garage and reaching into a pouch or waistband as Danielson and a friend, Chandler Pappas, walk south on Third Avenue
Click to expand...
Homicide Detective Rico Beniga wrote that Reinoehl “conceals himself, waits and watches” as Danielson and Pappas pass him.

After the two men go by, Reinoehl followed them, walking west across the street moments before the gunshots were fired, police said.
Click to expand...
A witness told police he heard one of the men confronting Danielson and Pappas say something like, “We’re going to (expletive) kill you,” the affidavit said.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Tank said:
In both Kenosha and Portland, as well as Charlottesville 2017 and every other instance (without exception) - Antifa are always the originators of the violence.
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "originator".

In the case of James Fields running his car into the mob and killing Heather Heyer, there was no indication of previous violence or threat. Unless you want to say that that incident "originated" before Fields got in the car, I don't think you have a case.

Also, in videos I have seen from Portland and Charlottesville, what I saw several examples of was a group of counterprotestors or left wing protestors blocking a street, and the right wing respond with violence. For example in Charlottesville, a counterprotestor crowd set up a shield wall to block the street, and I saw a group of pseudoNazis organize a charge and attempt to break the line. In Portland, a group of protesters blocked the street, and a right winger got out of his car and punched one of them. Those are kind of edge cases. The Trumpsters in Portland and the pseudoNazis in Charlottesville had a right to use those streets, but does blocking the street count as "initiating violence"?

As is common in lots of "he started it" situations so common among children and the childish, it's more commonly a series of escalations, making it difficult to say exactly who originated what.

Danielson came prepared to defend himself against the very well known, predictable violence he'd encounter from Antifa and was killed for trying to defend himself.
Click to expand...

How'd that work out for him? I think he, and everyone else, would have been better off if he had left the weapons home. It looked to me like some of those Proud Boys or whoever they were were spoiling for a fight. They got it. Who won? Who is better off for it?

It's that "series of escalations" thing, and when it's all over two people were dead. So it goes.

Rittenhouse was also set upon by Antifa violence, and he successfully defended himself.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen clear video of the first killing by Rittenhouse, or read a clear account of exactly what happened. I don't know that such an account exists that would enable us to make that judgement. In the case of the second killing, he was certainly being set upon by left wing demonstrators, but if the first killing was not in self defense, then the second killing was murder, regardless of self defense. I think more evidence is required to reach the judgement you have reached.

Whether it's the guy who got hit with a bike lock across the head by the Antifa professor a few years ago, or these events now - it's always the same story. These Antifa people, especially a dedicated core within them, openly advocate for violent measures and revel in the destruction of property, arson, and horrendous violence upon other persons - usually done in a completely out of the blue fashion like a "sucker punch" or ambush approach.
Click to expand...

On this point, we agree. Antifa is a menace. However, one of the worst things that they do is rile up a bunch of idiots to oppose them. When it comes to the people engaging in the violence, there are no good people on either side.
 
Last edited:
Meadmaker said:
On this point, we agree. Antifa is a menace. However, one of the worst things that they do is rile up a bunch of idiots to oppose them. When it comes to the people engaging in the violence, there are no good people on either side.
Click to expand...

Jawohl Mr Goebbels. Oh and, if you think that's undeserved, there used to be a point when this sort of nonsense could be explained by ignorance but that point has long since passed.
 
Last edited:
Boudicca90 said:
If even only 20% of the protesters are using violent and destructive tactics, that means the rest of the 80% are peaceful. Unless you want to make everybody responsible for the actions of a few. A mentality nobody seems to have when it comes to cops...
Click to expand...

That sentiment deserves the ridicule it is getting from the Babylon Bee and others. It is absurd. There are plenty of peaceful protests in Portland that people can and do attend and there are the riots. Nobody went to the SE Portland police precinct last night with hopes of anything other than violent confrontations with the police and the opportunity to riot. People make a conscious choice about which events they wish to attend and that is why they went to this event if they are not direct participants in the violence and arson. It isn't like people are naive about what is going to go down.
 
Meadmaker said:
On this point, we agree. Antifa is a menace. However, one of the worst things that they do is rile up a bunch of idiots to oppose them. When it comes to the people engaging in the violence, there are no good people on either side.
Click to expand...

caveman1917 said:
Jawohl Mr Goebbels. Oh and, if you think that's undeserved, there used to be a point when this sort of nonsense could be explained by ignorance but that point has long since passed.
Click to expand...

People engaging in violence are not good people. I stand by that. I don't care if they are left wing, right wing, Nazi, or Communist, Democrat or Republican, or just plain looters.



I'll be taking a break from this forum until election day. I can't imagine things getting any better here in the remaining days before the election.
 
Meadmaker said:
People engaging in violence are not good people. I stand by that. I don't care if they are left wing, right wing, Nazi, or Communist, Democrat or Republican, or just plain looters.
Click to expand...

Oh please, that was the least of it. Antifascists are a menace? Antifascists are responsible for "riling up" fascists to oppose them? Yeah sure, if only it weren't for those pesky antifascists there wouldn't be any fascist violence. Oh right, you prefer to call them "idiots" in an attempt to paint fascist gangs as some sort of random people who don't know what they're doing - and only doing it because they are riled up by those pesky antifascists - rather than explicitly organized fascist gangs knowing exactly what they're doing.

As for people engaging in violence by default not being good people: So all cops and soldiers are by default not good people? Let me guess, now there's going to be excuses as to why your preferred violent people are exempt from that?
 
Meadmaker said:
People engaging in violence are not good people. I stand by that. I don't care if they are left wing, right wing, Nazi, or Communist, Democrat or Republican, or just plain looters.



I'll be taking a break from this forum until election day. I can't imagine things getting any better here in the remaining days before the election.
Click to expand...

We may be in for a very rough ride AFTER the election according to security expert Miles Taylor
Article in The Atlantic
The Warning Signs of a Combustible Presidential Transition

This summer may provide a grim preview of what the post-election period will be like.
 
portlandatheist said:
We may be in for a very rough ride AFTER the election according to security expert Miles Taylor
Article in The Atlantic
The Warning Signs of a Combustible Presidential Transition

This summer may provide a grim preview of what the post-election period will be like.
Click to expand...

Oh definitely. I'm preparing myself for the inevitable.

I know we plan to keep the BLM protests up throughout Biden's Presidency, since we don't expect anything to be done about the cops in this country unless we put pressure on him. But we also have a far more violent opposition that we need to defend ourselves against. So I expect it to get worse.
 
Boudicca90 said:
Oh definitely. I'm preparing myself for the inevitable.

I know we plan to keep the BLM protests up throughout Biden's Presidency, since we don't expect anything to be done about the cops in this country unless we put pressure on him. But we also have a far more violent opposition that we need to defend ourselves against. So I expect it to get worse.
Click to expand...

the thing is, while BLM is avowedly nonviolent, the same doesn't apply to the various media figures, gawkers, and other randos that get shot at by these bigoted MAGAts and cops. So, when a medic runs up to help our Patriot Prayer idiot despite his violence, and the cops shoved her aside and refused to let her provide treatment, I feel bad for the medic, but not at all for the violent fool that died in the street.
 
“I’m screaming at them like, ‘I’m not part of the protest!’ Like, ‘You guys were in my neighborhood,'” he said.

Warren said he needed stitches and spent several hours in the hospital overnight, but that the worst part was the impact it had on his son and his son’s friend.
Click to expand...

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/...as-during-riot/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Man's house filled with tear gas after 100th night of protests against the PPB. He was struck in head by the pigs when he went outside to complain.

Some neighbors were caught in the crossfire between protesters and police, and said tear gas leaked into their homes. One man said his home was so full of gas, his 13-year-old son and his friend were screaming inside their home, trying to wash out their eyes in the sink.
Click to expand...

Hearts and minds PPB

“I was out here fighting for peace, asking people not to be aggressive, saying, ‘Don’t do anything,’ and then I got shot at by rubber bullets. Then I got tear-gassed and pepper-sprayed, and it showed me that crime is a social construct because [the police] can openly violate our rights and that’s not illegal, so now I feel like it’s well within our rights to fight back as hard as we can,” she said. “People might say I’ve been radicalized, but you know what? I have absolutely been radicalized — and it’s the government’s fault.”
Click to expand...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...bc29_story.html#click=https://t.co/WVX31dWFUF

Police violence is radicalising the public at an impressive rate. When the tide turns against the pigs, they will have only themselves to blame.
 
Last edited:
Not only does the public get radicalized, it also wises up on how to deal with police tactics.

All the Cops are doing is show their impotence.
 
portlandatheist said:
It isn't 100% conclusive but we see the shooter hiding in a parking garage as his victim walks by and in the video of the shooting itself, it is clear that the shooter moved on his victim and not the other way around. I think it is pretty reasonable to characterize the confrontation as an ambush.

ETA:
Here's an article from Oregon live:
Michael Reinoehl appeared to target right-wing demonstrator before fatal shooting in Portland, police say
Click to expand...


I'm on the fence with this one but I would like to point out from your link on #1246 it shows two images. The first image is a few seconds prior to the second image which is the same image as the OregonLive image.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/lo...case/283-629b983a-620a-469e-bc03-4b365a99a547

The first picture shows Michael Reinoehl standing on the sidewalk. The two people directly behind him are none other than Aaron 'Jay' Danielson (left) and his friend Chandler Pappas (right). Danielson appears to be talking to Pappas and has his head turned toward Pappas while Pappas appears to be looking/scanning the sidewalk in front of him. It's hard to imagine that those two did not see Reinoehl before he "concealed himself" (as the police insist).
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Not only does the public get radicalized, it also wises up on how to deal with police tactics.

All the Cops are doing is show their impotence.
Click to expand...

I suppose I've been "re-radicalized" instead.

I used to be a socialist/communist (of the Libertarian Marxist variety) back in my teens and early 20's, and mellowed out somewhat during the Obama years, becoming more of a social democrat due to falling for his "hope and change" propaganda. It of course was all a lie and the country has just become worse and worse as the far-right has taken over (with a not-surprising lack of resistance from liberals) and capitalism has been failing everybody but a select few.

So now i'm back and more determined than ever. :)
 
Proud boys rush protestors and viciously assault a defenseless man. One fascist seen beating him repeatedly in the back of the head while laying on the ground. A woman approaches and pepper sprays the injured man and encourages others to rob him.

I'm sure the police are investigating this broad daylight gang beating as a top priority.

https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1303107492096794625?s=19
 
Last edited:
SuburbanTurkey said:
Proud boys rush protestors and viciously assault a defenseless man. One fascist seen beating him repeatedly in the back of the head while laying on the ground. A woman approaches and pepper sprays the injured man and encourages others to rob him.

I'm sure the police are investigating this broad daylight gang beating as a top priority.

https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1303107492096794625?s=19
Click to expand...

At the Salem rally, right-wing bigots attacked a defenseless counter-protester, but fortunately, the Salem police were nearby and immediately stopped the brutal attack and arrested the bigots.
https://twitter.com/Terrence_STR/status/1303116829670477825
Also worth mentioning: instead of intervening and helping they guy, the press just decided that filming the event was more important priority than anything else.
 
Always a dilemma for reporters.
Are they there to document and report or do they get involved?
 
portlandatheist said:
At the Salem rally, right-wing bigots attacked a defenseless counter-protester, but fortunately, the Salem police were nearby and immediately stopped the brutal attack and arrested the bigots.

https://twitter.com/Terrence_STR/status/1303116829670477825

Also worth mentioning: instead of intervening and helping they guy, the press just decided that filming the event was more important priority than anything else.
Click to expand...

Edit: cops let both men go free.

ETA: both men seen in this assault were later seen by the reporter free from arrest.
Hard to imagine cops having such an understanding view of BLM rioters

https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1303134764652732417?s=19

https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1303133272608702466?s=19

Relying on law enforcement to protect peaceful demonstration from right wing violence is for fools.

Cops and klan, hand in hand again.
 
Last edited:
SuburbanTurkey said:
Immediately is a funny way to put it, considering this was the second such bull rush and beating. The aggressors seem surprised that the cops are intervening, considering they just did the same thing a moment ago without consequence.

ETA: both men seen in this assault were later seen by the reporter free from arrest.
Hard to imagine cops having such an understanding view of BLM rioters

https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1303134764652732417?s=19

https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1303133272608702466?s=19

Relying on law enforcement to protect peaceful demonstration from right wing violence is for fools.

Cops and klan, hand in hand again.
Click to expand...

FWIW, I think the Salem police did generally a better job than Portland when it comes to keeping the crowds separated. Here they are appealing to the right wingers to stay in their area:
https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1303111233801916417
"Back to your side now!"
As far as the revolving door is concerned, I think it is a serious problem(especially with these guys) and its not like it is different than other protesters, they also have a catch and release policy. I don't think there is a big delta between the two groups.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom