Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

Ziggurat said:
We don't know what the evidence was. CNN et al. attempted to get the trial thrown out, and it wasn't. That means it went to discovery. So there's a significant possibility that additional evidence did emerge, but has not been made public because of the NDA.

And the press has no better defense than anyone else against defamation claims. Public figures have a much higher burden in proving defamation, and they're the ones we normally think of the press as going after, but this kid wasn't a public figure so that higher threshold doesn't apply.
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This is something I'm out of my depth on, but respected lawyers with experience in the field of defamation are the ones scoffing at the idea that Sandmann walked away with a substantial payout. His lawyer barely saved the case, because nearly every one of his motions were dismissed in a preliminary hearing, which means that the judge saw no possibility of prevailing. Only after an amended filing did 3 narrow claims make it through.

Like you say, that leads to discovery. Seems much more likely that a settlement with a nominal payout was intended to avoid discovery because it can be expensive, rather than trying to avoid damning evidence coming to light.

I'll just leave this source here, it wasn't really my intention to derail the thread.

https://lawandcrime.com/media/some-lawyers-think-covington-catholics-nick-sandmann-walked-away-from-media-lawsuits-with-peanuts/

My larger point is that a high profile case is undoubtedly good for Lin Wood, but it remains unclear if his involvement will be a benefit to our shooter accused of a variety of serious felonies.

This time around, there will be no NDA settlement, so we'll get an answer eventually.
 
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shuttlt said:
Allowing the police guns means there are going to be some unjustifiable shootings. Surely the exact number that would be acceptable isn't knowable and would change over time?
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You have completely missed my point.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Acceptable is zero. But question is what is achievable. And how. I'm not sure.

Better training, and more focus on personal responsibility would be step in right direction. Imho cops should be allowed to shoot when feeling threatened, but they must also know they will carry the consequences if they mess up.
The cases must be instigated, as openly as possible. Race motives must be addressed ASAP. Cop might get special treatment, but not in guilty / not-guilty department. Saying he was guilty sends message about what's right and wrong.
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I agree.

But there doesn’t seem to be much of an appetite to make these changes. The police are certainly against them.

So what are the people who disproportionately find themselves the victims in these scenarios supposed to do in the meantime? Continue to wait patiently for change that does not seem forthcoming? Suck it up and take it?
 
ponderingturtle said:
No it does not. That is premeditated murder, all murder requires is an intentional act not premeditation. That is why these cases are murder and not manslaughter where it is a unintended result.

These are not negligent shootings that happen to hit someone, these are intentional actions and so either murder or justifiable self defense.

You want manslaughter look at this shooting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Akai_Gurley
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Yanez in Castile case was charged with second-degree manslaughter,
two counts of dangerous discharge of a firearm (wiki).
 
johnny karate said:
I agree.

But there doesn’t seem to be much of an appetite to make these changes. The police are certainly against them.

So what are the people who disproportionately find themselves the victims in these scenarios supposed to do in the meantime? Continue to wait patiently for change that does not seem forthcoming? Suck it up and take it?
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Finding political backing or making a political party would be good move. Democrats give some, but imho not enough. Let's hope Biden wins and there's more of a chance to do something.
There is no simple solution. Blacks alone won't be strong enough. They need to convince majority. And while convincing them blacks are targeted disproportionately might be hard, convincing them police is overstepping way too often should be easier.

Setting random houses on fire won't help the matter though. It will just bring less sympathy for black and more sympathy for police.
 
Proud Boys are telegraphing quite clearly that they intend violence for their September 26th rally.

Enrique Tarrio said:
Antifa is in for a bad time if LEO or the National Guard doesn't show up September 26th
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Seems almost a guarantee of live fire on the streets of Portland if cops allow the right free reign again. Hopefully it's all dead fash again, but seems unlikely.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Proud Boys are telegraphing quite clearly that they intend violence for their September 26th rally.



Seems almost a guarantee of live fire on the streets of Portland if cops allow the right free reign again. Hopefully it's all dead fash again, but seems unlikely.
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Are you looking forward people dying ? Nice flex man ! :eye-poppi
 
Dr.Sid said:
Finding political backing or making a political party would be good move. Democrats give some, but imho not enough. Let's hope Biden wins and there's more of a chance to do something.
There is no simple solution. Blacks alone won't be strong enough. They need to convince majority. And while convincing them blacks are targeted disproportionately might be hard, convincing them police is overstepping way too often should be easier.
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As we've seen on this board, many so-called conservatives are strongly in favor of police and pseudo-vigilante violence against random nonwhite people, balck and Hispanic people in particular, as well as Arab when they don't simply say "muslim" instead because they can't be bothered to distinguish the actual religion they hate from religions they actually like, and will tie themselves into knots to justify it.

And the US "First past the goalpost" system renders any party beyond the first two to be nothing but a farce thus why most social democrats, libertarians, and so forth join either the democratic or republican parties.

Dr.Sid said:
Are you looking forward people dying ? Nice flex man ! :eye-poppi
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Well, when one side is all but outright stating that they are organizing specifically to murder others, and said group is organized exactly like a street gang, complete with violent initiation rituals, yes, one should hope that any fatality falls entirely on the murderous street gang, and not the protestors. Seems pretty simple to me.
 
Mumbles said:
Well, when one side is all but outright stating that they are organizing specifically to murder others, and said group is organized exactly like a street gang, complete with violent initiation rituals, yes, one should hope that any fatality falls entirely on the murderous street gang, and not the protestors. Seems pretty simple to me.
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Where they state they are going to murder others ? And what it has do with protestors ? Isn't this about riots and vandalism ? Do you think rioting and vandalism is protest ?
 
A commentator on Fox news said that where he was in SW Washington 15 minutes away from Portland by 205, that there were dozens of Federal 'SWAT like trucks' at a hotel near him, and he wished he could post pictures of all of them. Which would likely mean the Mill Plain neighborhood of Vancouver, WA.

If that is true, I am not really surprised. DHS for awhile has said that they are ready to step in if the local politicians show that they unable, or more likely unwilling to stop the violence.

When the Multnomah County DA publicly States that he won't hold protesters accountable, and purposefully sets policy to encourage violent protesters to spread violence and terrorism throughout their community with impunity, I can understand why the Federal Government would have to step in. Usually they have to step in from Natural disasters like hurricanes, not man-made disasters, but the mayor of Portland and other local leaders certainly seems disinterested in stopping the violence.
 
johnny karate said:
Ask yourself how many unjustifiable police shootings are acceptable.

Now imagine that you or a loved one are on the list of candidates for an unjustifiable police shooting.

Does that move the needle for you?
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That is a profound question, but it brings up many more questions.

- who decided that the shooting was 'unjustifiable'?
- how many people decided that the shooting was 'unjustifiable'?
- what percent of people decided that the shooting was 'unjustifiable'?
- how solid was the evidence when an undeclared number of people decided that the shooting was 'unjustifiable'?


So many unknown questions, and than to suddenly decide that the shooting was acceptable!! What a dramatic turn of events!

And on top of that to have a family member involved!

Certainly a great script for a soap opera, but definitely not enough information to make a rational decision.
 
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HoverBoarder said:
purposefully sets policy to encourage violent protesters to spread violence and terrorism throughout their community with impunity,
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Why do people make up stuff like this? It makes me sad.



I haven't followed things closely. I know they are a mess. I would find it perfectly plausible that the local officials, including the DA referred to above were incompetent or had policies that were stupid. That happens.


What I do not believe is that there is a district attorney in the nation that "purposefully" encourages people "to spread violence and terrorism throughout their community", with or without impunity.

It's possible that his policies will have that effect, or perhaps a less hyperbolic but still awful verison of that effect. But "purposely"?

People don't seem to see the effect that rhetoric like that actually contributes to the problem that most people want to solve. i.e. how it sustains the violence.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Where they state they are going to murder others ?
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"all but outright stating that they are organizing specifically to murder others"

Dr.Sid said:
And what it has do with protestors ? Isn't this about riots and vandalism ? Do you think rioting and vandalism is protest ?
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The Fascists don't discriminate between looters and protesters.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Where they state they are going to murder others ? And what it has do with protestors ? Isn't this about riots and vandalism ? Do you think rioting and vandalism is protest ?
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Yes, the group that celebrates street violence and comes heavily armed wearing RWDS (Right Wing Death Squad) patches just want a dialogue.
 
Meadmaker said:
Why do people make up stuff like this? It makes me sad.
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Is this "making stuff up", or is it opinion? It's not like similar opinions don't get thrown about expressed with similar certainty going the other way. Two wrongs don't make a right etc... but resisting it is a losing battle.

Meadmaker said:
I haven't followed things closely. I know they are a mess. I would find it perfectly plausible that the local officials, including the DA referred to above were incompetent or had policies that were stupid. That happens.


What I do not believe is that there is a district attorney in the nation that "purposefully" encourages people "to spread violence and terrorism throughout their community", with or without impunity.

It's possible that his policies will have that effect, or perhaps a less hyperbolic but still awful verison of that effect. But "purposely"?

People don't seem to see the effect that rhetoric like that actually contributes to the problem that most people want to solve. i.e. how it sustains the violence.
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I think the idea is that federal help has been refused, so police have to handle it, Democrat politicians then side with the rioters if they complain about the police, and when the police do arrest rioters they are released by the DA. There is a perception that these governors, mayors and DAs have created a situation where there are no meaningful consequences for rioting and nothing meaningful is being done to stop the rioting. This isn't an isolated issue of the policy of one incompetent DA that we can account for by incompetence, is it? There is widespread reluctance to actively try to restore order.
 
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