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Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

William Parcher said:
Is the ultimate goal of this anarchy to replace the existing government with one that is perpetually far left? Do they want to end the Republican Party by overthrow defeat or coup?
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Depending on the anarchists they might want to abolish the government period.

Incidentally, as imbecilic as most anarchists now are, as a philosophy it actually has a very interesting and often heroic history.
 
Dr.Sid said:
He's actually saying none of the kind. Police shooting are sometimes legitimate. Police shooting of black people are sometimes legitimate. It's quite possible police shooting in Kenosha will pass investigation and court as legitimate.
It's not 'let police shoot everyone' vs. 'let police shoot no-one'. The problem is actually exactly this generalization. Problem is Police is sometimes unable or unwiling to discern between right and wrong and act on stereotype. You are doing exactly the same.
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Of course the standard of "legitimate" includes shooting people on their knees for 5 minutes begging for their life. So really in practice it is all police shootings are justified.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Of course the standard of "legitimate" includes shooting people on their knees for 5 minutes begging for their life. So really in practice it is all police shootings are justified.
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Don't forget shooting people who reach for their ID after you tell them to reach for their ID.
 
Pro-tip to would-be right wing vigilante gunmen. Try not to commit double homicide during a pandemic.

Kyle is being held without bond. With covid gumming up the court systems, who knows how long he will have to rot in jail before he gets to make his case for self-defense.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Pro-tip to would-be right wing vigilante gunmen. Try not to commit double homicide during a pandemic.

Kyle is being held without bond. With covid gumming up the court systems, who know how long he will have to rot in jail before he gets to make his case for self-defense.
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He is also using the argument that it wasn't his gun, so the underage transporting gun across state lines doesn't count. Though if true wouldn't it just make his buddy who loaned him the gun a criminal?

Also there is his claim that he was part of a well regulated militia so his shooting people is covered by the second amendment.
 
ponderingturtle said:
He is also using the argument that it wasn't his gun, so the underage transporting gun across state lines doesn't count. Though if true wouldn't it just make his buddy who loaned him the gun a criminal?

Also there is his claim that he was part of a well regulated militia so his shooting people is covered by the second amendment.
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I'm not familiar with the law regarding underage guns in WI, but often possession is what is banned, not ownership. He was undoubtedly in possession, even if only temporarily. I can't see how someone seen walking the streets with a rifle slung up can be argued to not be in possession of a deadly weapon.

He's got some weird legal representation going on. Lin Wood, best known for defamation cases involving right wingers like the Covington Catholic kid, is involved in a criminal defense case for some reason. I see bizarre 2A arguments about him being a "militaman" or whatever. I am assuming this is more on the PR side and not his actual criminal defense strategy.

I assume he has a real criminal defense lawyer, because I would think a double homicide + other felonies is probably not the ideal case for an amateur.
 
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Interesting letter for US Attorney overseeing cases in DC.

There has been a tiff between Mayor Bowser and Trump regarding who is actually to blame for continued unrest and chaos in the streets. Mayor Bowser tried to accuse the feds of being too soft on crime.

In a response letter, the US attorney claims that they can't proceed with cases because the metro cops protest suppression tactics are too sloppy and they aren't adequately documenting and articulating probable cause for arrests.

Anyone who has watched any protest footage has seen plenty of examples of indiscriminate beatings and arrests of protesters who don't seem to be doing anything criminal beyond unlawful assembly. it should be no shock that proceeding with cases against these people is impossible.

https://twitter.com/USAO_DC/status/1300856201559842816

It seems clear to me that, after months or even years of tedious legal battles, it will be demonstrated clearly that the cops here are engaged in routine and systematic civil rights violations in order to suppress these anti-police protests.

ETA:

Class action lawsuit filed against city of Kenosha for disparate enforcement of curfew when it comes to anti-cop BLM protesters and pro-cop armed reactionaries. The lawsuit claims this is a deliberate and systematic attempt to suppress the 1A rights of protesters. Hard to argue against this view given the obvious preferential treatment that pro-cop reactionaries have received at these events in Kenosha.

https://twitter.com/jscros/status/1301000491980201984
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
I'm not familiar with the law regarding underage guns in WI, but often possession is what is banned, not ownership. He was undoubtedly in possession, even if only temporarily. I can't see how someone seen walking the streets with a rifle slung up can be argued to not be in possession of a deadly weapon.

He's got some weird legal representation going on. Lin Wood, best known for defamation cases involving right wingers like the Covington Catholic kid, is involved in a criminal defense case for some reason. I see bizarre 2A arguments about him being a "militaman" or whatever. I am assuming this is more on the PR side and not his actual criminal defense strategy.

I assume he has a real criminal defense lawyer, because I would think a double homicide + other felonies is probably not the ideal case for an amateur.
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Don't think his lawyer expects him nor intends for Kyle to beat the rap. He's being molded into a reactionary right martyr who will be used as a rethorical weapon. Eventually, Trump can just pardon any federal charges, right?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I assume he has a real criminal defense lawyer, because I would think a double homicide + other felonies is probably not the ideal case for an amateur.
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Really, he is 17 shouldn't be being tried as an adult. I'm guessing Wisconsin has some automatic transfer to adult status statute for murder when the kid is a certain age, so I'm not saying this in the legal sense.

This isn't about some evil kid. The kid hasn't fully developed mentally and this is about the people and societal forces that created what this child is. Putting this kid through a juvenile system aimed at rehabilitation until he's 21 would be best for everyone. It would have put this case under seal and made it harder for him to be used as the political football he has become.

I'm sort of surprised that a lot of otherwise progressive people let go of this principle on this one and sound kind of glad that this kid might not be well off in an adult prison system.
 
Suddenly said:
Really, he is 17 shouldn't be being tried as an adult. I'm guessing Wisconsin has some automatic transfer to adult status statute for murder when the kid is a certain age, so I'm not saying this in the legal sense.

This isn't about some evil kid. The kid hasn't fully developed mentally and this is about the people and societal forces that created what this child is. Putting this kid through a juvenile system aimed at rehabilitation until he's 21 would be best for everyone. It would have put this case under seal and made it harder for him to be used as the political football he has become.

I'm sort of surprised that a lot of otherwise progressive people let go of this principle on this one and sound kind of glad that this kid might not be well off in an adult prison system.
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This is very true. I think it's a hard thing to do to stick to your principles when it would mean arguing that yet another white kid should get a treatment not afforded to everyone else, but that's still what we should be doing.
 
Suddenly said:
Really, he is 17 shouldn't be being tried as an adult. I'm guessing Wisconsin has some automatic transfer to adult status statute for murder when the kid is a certain age, so I'm not saying this in the legal sense.

This isn't about some evil kid. The kid hasn't fully developed mentally and this is about the people and societal forces that created what this child is. Putting this kid through a juvenile system aimed at rehabilitation until he's 21 would be best for everyone. It would have put this case under seal and made it harder for him to be used as the political football he has become.

I'm sort of surprised that a lot of otherwise progressive people let go of this principle on this one and sound kind of glad that this kid might not be well off in an adult prison system.
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There's a lot of room between our current horrible carceral system and one where 17 year old double murders get a a 5 year sentence.

17 years old is old enough to know that taking a gun and seeking out opportunities to murder is morally reprehensible behavior. I could see his youth and the influence of right wing propaganda glorifying violence being a somewhat mitigating factor in his defense, but I still think decades in jail would be appropriate.

It's hard for me to remain impartial given that his legal defense is trying to turn him into some sort of right wing martyr.
 
I think people are in general a lot less worried about his sentence and a lot more worried about the fact that he literally walked up to police carrying an assault rifle after murdering multiple people and the police did everything short of tousling his hair and giving him a pinch on the cheek before sending him on his way in a world where... just existing routinely gets younger black boys 347 warning shots.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I think people are in general a lot less worried about his sentence and a lot more worried about the fact that he literally walked up to police carrying an assault rifle after murdering multiple people and the police did everything short of tousling his hair and giving him a pinch on the cheek before sending him on his way in a world where... just existing routinely gets younger black boys 347 warning shots.
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Indeed.

Someone injured by Alan Swinney's paintball gun has already had enough time to file a lawsuit, but the cops still haven't managed to generate PC for an arrest.

Swinney was captured on camera committing numerous assaults, capping off the day by brandishing a pistol. He is openly bragging about these crimes and is present at other high profile gatherings.

It's obvious the cops see these people as allies and have no interest in policing their violence unless forced to by public pressure.
 
Dr.Sid said:
5 minutes ? Wasn't even 5 seconds. Please, this is skeptical site. Not poetry contest.
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You're thinking of the wrong police execution. Turtle is probably referencing the killing of a sobbing, compliant man on his knees in Arizona. Or some other shooting, it's hard to say, there's so many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

The cop that killed Shaver was successful in receiving a medical retirement for the PTSD related to the shooting.
 
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