Cont: The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[Mader Levap]

The Trump regime, though, has outright stated that they're not interested in fighting Covid because it'll hurt Blue states and voters the most. Their actions since then have demonstrated this wasn't just sarcasm meant to trigger the libs -- it's been their policy since the outbreak started, with few exceptions (I view the closing of the Chinese border as more of an anti-China move to pander to his base).

Again, it is like occupation by hostile foreign force.

This kind of thing means two ideologies increasingly cannot coexist anymore. This will escalate.

It makes me even more sure that question of civil war is when, not if. I can only hope certain side - spiritual descendants from losing side of american civil war and spiritual brothers of side that lost second world war - will lose. Again.

 

[newyorkguy]

Below is a quote from New York Magazine.

As the pandemic swept through largely Democratic-voting states like New York, Massachusetts, and New Jersey this spring, the early response from the Trump administration was defined by a catastrophic mix of ambivalence and incompetence. “Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” President Trump said on a March 16 conference call with the nation’s governors, abdicating federal responsibility and sparking a bidding war among the states for limited hospital supplies. At least one auction was sent into further chaos when the federal government outbid states on the contracts.

But the Trump administration’s disregard for the massive loss of life was not equal: According to a Washington Post report from March 28, hard-hit, Democratic-leaning states like Massachusetts received only 17 percent of the protective gear requested from the national stockpile, while GOP-led Florida promptly received supplies it needed, despite a controlled outbreak at the time. New York link

It seems to me if these kinds of accusations were leveled against any previous president it would have been a national scandal. But not with trump. Who would be truly surprised by this? Some of his supporters would probably just shrug and say, "he's smart."

What is happening in this country, how did we get to where we are today? It's a national nightmare unfolding before our very eyes and the average person is powerless to do anything about it. Meanwhile, trump is doing exactly what he has always done. As with the USFL football league, the trump Shuttle Airline, the Atlantic City casinos. He gets a hold of something and he destroys it.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

It seems to me if these kinds of accusations were leveled against any previous president it would have been a national scandal. But not with trump. Who would be truly surprised by this? Some of his supporters would probably just shrug and say, "he's smart."

Or "lol triggurd libs".

Or, of course, "see, this is what happens when Dems run states".

 

[Roger Ramjets]

What is happening in this country, how did we get to where we are today?

What's happening is the result of not ending the Civil War properly. We should have burned the South to the ground and then kicked them out of the Union for good. But instead we pretended that our differences were resolved, and now here we are.

 

[jimbob]

At a 0.75% fatality rate that would be (just) less than a million dead. Well worth it to some.

And 0.75% is definitely a low-end estimate.

It looks as though the UK has about 6% of the total population have been infected, with about 0.1% of the total population dying

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/201893/largest-study-home-coronavirus-antibody-testing/

 

[Minoosh]

It might be worth noting that humans are emotional creatures. Some of us are swayed more with rationality and logic, yes, but that's at our best. Possibly, the best thing that can be done, generally speaking, is make is clear that you're on their side and appealing to common values, when it comes to persuasiveness. That, admittedly, can be hard to do much of the time.

For me it comes pretty naturally - maybe because I usually believe people do have a basis for what they believe that makes some kind of sense to them, and I'm genuinely curious about what those reasons are.

Partly this is because I can see that many "rational" beliefs I hold are for not-very-rational reasons. I believe in global warming because where I live it's gotten progressively hotter over my lifetime - but that is actually not very compelling evidence.

With coronavirus - I "believe" in it because when examining why it is considered such a threat, I keep coming back to the simplest explanation being that it really *is* such a threat. Public opinion is so complex that I'm not certain it can be easily, or simply, be influenced by competing top-down narratives.

Sometimes I wonder ... if there was concern about a similarly scary scenario such as ... rabies, or Ebola, or smallpox ... would it be tougher to deny than looking at an acute respiratory syndrome that disproportionately affects people with prior health conditions? Would we still be having this conversation about the usefulness of masks etc.? No, people would be hunkered down at home without a lot of media intervention. I don't know what this all means in terms of accepting the general public-health response to COVID-19. I don't think it would be such an uphill slog. IMO we're lucky it's not something worse, and it makes me wonder if the next pathogen that shows up will be significantly less forgiving than COVID-19.

 

[Bob001]

What's happening is the result of not ending the Civil War properly. We should have burned the South to the ground and then kicked them out of the Union for good. But instead we pretended that our differences were resolved, and now here we are.

No, no. The Southern lands should have been deeded to the freed slaves. And that's not a wildly radical idea. "40 acres and a mule" was promoted at the time as the compensation due to every slave.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I guess I understand why people might believe this, but it's never made sense to me.

But is it still apologetics if someone really believe something, vs. defending their grounds to do so?

Yes, that's the whole point, making excuses for the contradictions in the Bible.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

People are going nuts over this 'CDC says COVID only accounts for 6% of the COVID deaths'. If it fits their confirmation bias it's proof COVID isn't really a problem. Open the schools!!!!!!!!

That last one was from my Nextdoor forum.



This crap is tiring.

 

[lionking]

Trump Retweeted

Mel Q
@littllemel
“This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid
That's 9,210 deaths
The other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses & the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age”
https://facebook.com/1566405890/posts/10224050038749877/?extid=gr0T716wo2v3tjFm&d=n

Literally unbelievable. This is exactly like saying "oh, no he didn't die from cancer/suicide/stroke/car crash/etc, he died because his heart stopped".

But it is the sort of denial which will go down well with Trump supporters and lunatics around the world.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Literally unbelievable. This is exactly like saying "oh, no he didn't die from cancer/suicide/stroke/car crash/etc, he died because his heart stopped".

But it is the sort of denial which will go down well with Trump supporters and lunatics around the world.

Yeah but people are sure running with it.

We're in big trouble for the next few months anyway.

 

[Segnosaur]

Not sure if this should have gone under the general Trump thread or here... (Since its not specifically about Covid19 treatments, or government policy.)

From: The Hill
Dozens of Secret Service agents who protect President Trump and Vice President Pence have either contracted the coronavirus or were benched after coming in contact with people infected with COVID-19

From: The Rolling Stone
According to a report in the Washington Post, “dozens” of Secret Service agents have contracted the virus or have been quarantined in the last two months after being exposed while planning security for Republican political rallies or accompanying the president...One law enforcement official told the paper that agents guarding the president and vice president were warned not to speak about co-workers who caught the virus for fear of angering Trump.

Note that at least some of the agents came down with Covid-19 after they worked on security while Trump went golfing.

Trump seems to relish the support of groups like motercycle gangs and the Proud Boys... maybe Trump can get them to provide his security.

 

[newyorkguy]

Trump Retweeted

Mel Q
@littllemel
“This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid
That's 9,210 deaths
The other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses & the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age”
https://facebook.com/1566405890/posts/10224050038749877/?extid=gr0T716wo2v3tjFm&d=n

It should probably be pointed out the CDC report referred to is not new. The tweet refers to 153,504 deaths but the current total is 183,000. We passed six million cases over the weekend.

 

[jimbob]

People are going nuts over this 'CDC says COVID only accounts for 6% of the COVID deaths'. If it fits their confirmation bias it's proof COVID isn't really a problem. Open the schools!!!!!!!!

That last one was from my Nextdoor forum.



This crap is tiring.

Might be of use - UK data:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinjune2020#how-many-people-have-died-from-covid-19

Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide. In the majority of cases (46,736 deaths, 92.8%) where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be the underlying cause of death.

 

[jimbob]

Sadly it looks as though Herman Cain's Twitter account *is* continuing his "work"

Even if the tweet that this was quoting now looks to be deleted:

 

[Aridas]

Sadly it looks as though Herman Cain's Twitter account *is* continuing his "work"

Even if the tweet that this was quoting now looks to be deleted:

View attachment 42981

Yeah. Some of his family decided to keep using it to push political propaganda starting shortly after his death. Some of the reactions to that were rather amusing.

 

[The Don]

Yeah but people are sure running with it.

We're in big trouble for the next few months anyway.

I can't find the post, but I'm pretty sure that I said that thr Trump Administration would change the definition of Coronavirus death to be someone who had no preexisting conditions or any other ailments of any kind a few weeks ago.

 

[Firestone]

The CDC page about Excess Deaths in the US is (still) functioning.
If not Covid-19, what caused the 183.392 - 245.305 excess deaths calculated so far this year?

 

[Armitage72]

I am shocked!! Shocked!! Well, not that shocked.

The original "9000 deaths" Tweet has been deleted for being false information.

Twitter on Sunday took down a tweet containing a false claim about coronavirus death statistics that was made by a supporter of the baseless QAnon conspiracy theory -- a post that President Donald Trump had retweeted earlier in the day.
The tweet -- which has been replaced with a message saying, "This Tweet is no longer available because it violated the Twitter Rules -- from "Mel Q," copied from someone else's Facebook post, claimed that the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had "quietly" updated its numbers "to admit that only 6%" of people listed as coronavirus deaths "actually died from Covid," since "the other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses."

 

[The Don]

The CDC page about Excess Deaths in the US is (still) functioning.
If not Covid-19, what caused the 183.392 - 245.305 excess deaths calculated so far this year?

View attachment 42982

Antifa