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Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 24

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Dr.Sid said:
I don't know if somebody is saying exactly that, but the position is quite clear. There is very little condemning of violence from Democrats. I actually don't know about any. Democrats simply don't see violence on the streets, or don't care. Look at Belarus. 100.000 people in streets. Not a single shop robbed. Not a single car burned. That's peaceful protests.
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Elagabalus said:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/513802-biden-burning-down-communities-is-not-protest
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Yeah, no Democrats are condemning the violence. None. :rolleyes:

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler Thursday evening condemned the actions of rioters who attempted to set fire to a police precinct and blocked the exits while officers were inside.“When you commit arson with an accelerant in an attempt to burn down a building that is occupied by people who you have intentionally trapped inside, you are not demonstrating, you are attempting to commit murder," Wheeler said in a news conference with Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell.

"Don’t think for a moment that you are if you are participating in this activity, you are not being a prop for the reelection campaign of Donald Trump — because you absolutely are," he said. "You are creating the B-roll film that will be used in ads nationally to help Donald Trump during this campaign. If you don’t want to be part of that, then don’t show up.”
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We need a montage of Democratic leaders, Mayors, Governors and Biden condeming the violence and repeating that defunding the police is a slogan, not a solution.

There's no doubt in my mind that some of these people are getting out of hand because they are being encouraged. It's clear they help Trump.

That's why Biden needs to come out swinging on this one, not just make a statement when asked. Like making that montage I mentioned.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Disgraceful that Big Ten is not playing football. Let them PLAY!
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He doesn't know the players chose not to play. Of course that's not important, only that Trump looks like he's supporting all those armchair athletes.

Trump Tweet said:
How does the Fake News not include Online Streaming Numbers where Republicans blow the Dem Numbers away?

Great total numbers for the Republican National Convention. Blows Democrat National Convention away. Also, much bigger fund raising numbers!
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He's delusional, nothing new of course. He gets so bent when he loses.

Think he'll have a mental breakdown if he loses the election?
 
Trump Tweets:

Trump Lands Major Endorsements From Democrat Mayors in Minnesota https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...-strongholds-endorse-president-trump-n2575265 Thank you so much. I will never let you down!
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SezMe said:
The article cites a letter signed by six mayors. I looked up those towns and their populations:

Virginia 8,712
Chisholm 4,976
Ely 3,460
Two Harbors 3,745
Eveleth 3,718
Babbitt 1,475

My high school was bigger than Babbitt. It's no surprise that some mayors in these small towns out in rural, farming areas would endorse Trump. Yet the headline on the article blares "....Major Endorsements" ....
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For some more context the Subreddit dedicated to memes about the Star Wars prequels has more people than Babbitt.
 
Dr.Sid said:
I don't know if somebody is saying exactly that, but the position is quite clear. There is very little condemning of violence from Democrats. I actually don't know about any. Democrats simply don't see violence on the streets, or don't care. Look at Belarus. 100.000 people in streets. Not a single shop robbed. Not a single car burned. That's peaceful protests.
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You need to get out more.

Or at the very least expand the media sources you consume.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
He doesn't know the players chose not to play. Of course that's not important, only that Trump looks like he's supporting all those armchair athletes.


He's delusional, nothing new of course. He gets so bent when he loses.

Think he'll have a mental breakdown if he loses the election?
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I think that horse left the barn quite a while ago.

Could he break down even more? Possibly.

Should be interesting to watch.
 
I have a question: WHO is doing the rioting and looting? Is it the case that it actually is "Democrats" doing this?

Because all the video I have seen of protesters and marchers are people moving through the streets chanting. Not looting and burning, just walking, carrying signs, and chanting.

Those two gun-totin' nitwits who appeared on Trump's latest TV show. The crowd of "rioters and threats" seemed to be more interested in stopping only to gawk at them posing desperately on their marble front steps then walk on. But to hear them tell the tale, they barely escaped with their lives. All I can say is "LIARS!"

Then you get Trump-inspired low-lifes like the wannabe militia guy in Kenosha, taking advantage of the unrest to add his own bit of ****-stirring. Perhaps bringing on the boogaloo, I dunno. Result, two dead, serious injuries, and the prospect of a lifetime in jail for the idjit. And yet who was causing the unrest here? Not the protesters.

Obviously there are riots and looting happening. But I am seriously not convinced that the lawful, peaceful protesters are responsible for them all. It always seems that there are right-wing and openly anarchist provocateurs involved when it is looked at more closely. Is Trump organising them? He can't organise a **** in a brothel with a fistful of fives. I suspect these people think they are doing Trump's will though, and he likes to take advantage of the chaos it creates.

So what I'm doing now is that any tales of unrest, rioting, looting, and other nasty anti-social activities will be judged by who is telling them. If it's Trump and the right-wing media making the claim, I am simply not believing it.
 
Dr.Sid said:
I don't know if somebody is saying exactly that, but the position is quite clear. There is very little condemning of violence from Democrats. I actually don't know about any. Democrats simply don't see violence on the streets, or don't care. Look at Belarus. 100.000 people in streets. Not a single shop robbed. Not a single car burned. That's peaceful protests.
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Hmm? It's not so clear, honestly. Personally, I've seen a fair bit of disapproval for any violence - as well as that BLM itself tends to actively work to discourage and end violence and aid law enforcement when such is legitimate. Add to that that a heck of a lot of the damage and violence is being intentionally caused by white supremacists that are actively working to either stir up violence (quite a few that have been arrested for such at last check), create the spectre of it all being unruly mobs to delegitimize the cause and scare people for Republican benefit, and so on... and that right-wing propagandists are showing violence and damage that's literally not happening - well, where and when they imply that it happened, if it happened. The RNC pretended that violent imagery from Spain was Democrats being violent, for example. Fox used tape of burning buildings that had absolutely nothing to do with Portland in their coverage of such, for another. I could also add that when the George Floyd protests really started spreading, there were lots of videos and accounts that nearly all the people who were actively lawbreaking and looting were white people (especially the people who attacked black businesses) and that where the peaceful protestors were, they actively worked to dissuade and prevent such - and that a very significant amount of the chaos and harm that has occurred was fairly directly in reaction to lies and violence by the police.

Plenty more can be said, but... there has definitely been a bunch of condemnation of what violence there is - but also understanding that the issues in play are very, very ugly and entrenched, so venting outrage at the harm being done so that the people in power will actually DO something FINALLY can be understandable and that much, if not most, of the violence that has occurred has been wrongfully against peaceful protestors (which has much more broad effects on public order in general in response). You may well be seeing that understanding coming in play when it comes to Democrats being less willing to indiscriminately condemn everything - especially with the backdrop of right-wing propagandists screaming out lies and misdirection loudly and constantly. As for the MSM? They're largely focused on profits, of course, and rioters are much more attention-grabbing than peaceful protestors, so the coverage there tends to be rather disproportionate, too, albeit more likely to have far less direct spin.


Ziggurat said:
I'm not sure how you would test that, since I don't think Republicans get separate briefings. You can correct me if I'm wrong.
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You've missed how the Trump Administration is running things, now, I see? Understandable, given that it's easy to miss a lot of things in the chaos that the Trump Administration has been causing. Literally, they're briefing Republicans on a bunch of things that they are actively withholding from Democrats and have been doing so for a while. Not everything for the entire duration of Trump's Presidency, of course, but in recent months especially I've seen multiple stories about such happening, though they tend to get eclipsed pretty quickly.

With that said, IIRC, even some Republican lawmakers were getting fed up with how utterly terrible some of those briefings were and how the Trump Administration was failing to answer even basic questions that were raised. If you take that into account, them switching to written form is entirely understandable, both given their incompetence and given that it's much easier to delay and stonewall when dealing with the written word.

Skeptic Ginger said:
We need a montage of Democratic leaders, Mayors, Governors and Biden condeming the violence and repeating that defunding the police is a slogan, not a solution.
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I've heard the suggestion that rather than DEfund, something more like SMARTfund is probably better. I don't disagree with the notion. Either way, something that's pretty much one of those things that aren't stressed enough is that more and more and more duties have been dumped onto the police as time has gone on and other services have been defunded. Waaaaay too much in far too much of the country to expect any group of people to be able to handle competently and well. Police are people, too, after all, and really shouldn't have so much dumped on them.

For that matter, though, the Republican Party has been making a long-term concerted effort to defund the police. Those who can police the rich and powerful, that is. Like the IRS.
 
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Aridas said:
You've missed how the Trump Administration is running things, now, I see? Understandable, given that it's easy to miss a lot of things in the chaos that the Trump Administration has been causing. Literally, they're briefing Republicans on a bunch of things that they are actively withholding from Democrats and have been doing so for a while. Not everything for the entire duration of Trump's Presidency, of course, but in recent months especially I've seen multiple stories about such happening, though they tend to get eclipsed pretty quickly.
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Can you provide links to some of these stories?
 
In case anyone is still having a good day, the Predictit betting market now has Biden at 54 and Trump at 47.
 
Stacyhs said:
When somebody makes a claim, the onus is on them to support it not on someone else.
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Sure, but there are limits on what, in an educated discussion, you can expect a participants not to know.

It's is such a basic strategy of Trump defenders to ask for quotes for everything they already know to be true, just to avoid having to talk about it.
 
Ziggurat said:
Can you provide links to some of these stories?
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As noted, they tend to get eclipsed fairly quickly - this isn't something that tends to arouse as much lasting public interest, after all.

With that said, on a quick search -

The Al Baghdadi raid is the first example of similar behavior in play in that search, with the exact same concerns about leaking as the excuse. There were Republican legislators in the loop and Democrats were specifically excluded.

Russian bounty briefings were done separately for no good reason in sight, to poke at that. I admit to being uncharitable with this in that I'm not likely to blindly trust that all things were equal there, though it is possible that it's just that the WH wanted Republicans to have extra time to control the narrative only.

To poke at an example related to the latter part of what I said, then... 'Insulting and demeaning': Two GOP lawmakers rip Trump administration after Iran briefing
"It was probably the worst briefing I've seen at least on a military issue in the nine years I've served" in the Senate, said GOP Sen. Mike Lee of Utah.
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
Sure, but there are limits on what, in an educated discussion, you can expect a participants not to know.

It's is such a basic strategy of Trump defenders to ask for quotes for everything they already know to be true, just to avoid having to talk about it.
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He's just asking for links to some of these briefings that are allegedly being given to Republicans on a bunch of things but are actively being withheld from Democrats. That's the kind of statement that has to be supported with evidence. Fair is fair.

ETA: When you provide the evidence along with the claim, it adds credibility to the statement immediately.
 
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Stacyhs said:
He's just asking for links to some of these briefings that are allegedly being given to Republicans on a bunch of things but are actively being withheld from Democrats. That's the kind of statement that has to be supported with evidence. Fair is fair.

ETA: When you provide the evidence along with the claim, it adds credibility to the statement immediately.
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True enough. I was being a bit lazy and I admit it. Also... given the chaos that the Trump Administration has caused and the absurdly short news cycles before the next shiny object, it's entirely understandable for anyone to have missed many things. Frankly, it's also possible that I overstated the point slightly, but... given how Trump and this Administration works, that's probably not the case, unfortunately.
 
Aridas said:
True enough. I was being a bit lazy and I admit it. Also... given the chaos that the Trump Administration has caused and the absurdly short news cycles before the next shiny object, it's entirely understandable for anyone to have missed many things. Frankly, it's also possible that I overstated the point slightly, but... given how Trump and this Administration works, that's probably not the case, unfortunately.
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At least you have the maturity and a healthy enough ego to admit it instead of going into the self-defense mode of digging the hole even deeper! :thumbsup:
 
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