2020 Presidential Election

Status
Not open for further replies.
johnny karate said:
I’m also concerned about a Trump re-election, but I don’t think comparisons to the 2016 are apt. Trump was an unknown quantity then. Americans have had over three years to see what a spectacular failure he is as a president and a human being. Will that be enough? I don’t know. But Trump no longer has the momentum generated by being a political outsider that pushed him over the top in 2016.
Click to expand...
Yes, some have turned away from him. In the meantime, though, Trump has been doing everything he could to sabotage the USPS to prevent Dems from voting by mail, surpress voters in other ways, and move the US further towards a hyper-polarized, post-fact environment.

Neither covid nor the demonstrations and riots are hurting him as much as they should because his disciples get their facts filtered for them and genuenly believe he has done more to fight corona than anyone and/or that the pandemic is way overblown, and that the riots are caused by Marxist thugs and running unchecked because of the spineless mayors and governors of Democrat cities and states. Even him sending in black ops stormtroopers to kidnap people with black vans is spun as Trump doing what he had to do in order to restore Law&Order.

In general, it's hard to make predictions in a post-fact world, and when discussing the Trump regime. I mean, when he can take demonstrations and pandemic deaths that happened during his regime and use them to argue that he needs to be re-elected because this is what America will look like under Biden... I feel like I've fallen down the rabbit hole and landed in some alternate reality where nothing makes sense.
 
uke2se said:
You guys who are worried, you should focus your energy and do whatever you can to work for a Biden win. We're all worried about a Trump win, but you guys in the States are in a position to do something. The rest of us can only watch in terror as your country teeters on the precipice.

Here's a starting point: https://votesaveamerica.com/save-america/
Click to expand...
True. I'm looking at options for donating money. The Lincoln Project might get something, as might the Democratic party. Had I lived in the States, I would volunteer, but as I don't, contributing some of my money is the best I can do.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
True. I'm looking at options for donating money. The Lincoln Project might get something, as might the Democratic party. Had I lived in the States, I would volunteer, but as I don't, contributing some of my money is the best I can do.
Click to expand...

If you're not a US national you can't make a political donation. Be sure to select a non-profit in that case, as I believe they can accept foreign donations.
 
uke2se said:
If you're not a US national you can't make a political donation. Be sure to select a non-profit in that case, as I believe they can accept foreign donations.
Click to expand...
Could he hire some hackers to make various cyber attacks and bot nets? I hear that is quite acceptable to Americans.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Yes, some have turned away from him. In the meantime, though, Trump has been doing everything he could to sabotage the USPS to prevent Dems from voting by mail, surpress voters in other ways, and move the US further towards a hyper-polarized, post-fact environment.

Neither covid nor the demonstrations and riots are hurting him as much as they should because his disciples get their facts filtered for them and genuenly believe he has done more to fight corona than anyone and/or that the pandemic is way overblown, and that the riots are caused by Marxist thugs and running unchecked because of the spineless mayors and governors of Democrat cities and states. Even him sending in black ops stormtroopers to kidnap people with black vans is spun as Trump doing what he had to do in order to restore Law&Order.

In general, it's hard to make predictions in a post-fact world, and when discussing the Trump regime. I mean, when he can take demonstrations and pandemic deaths that happened during his regime and use them to argue that he needs to be re-elected because this is what America will look like under Biden... I feel like I've fallen down the rabbit hole and landed in some alternate reality where nothing makes sense.
Click to expand...
Covid- by itself, would have sunk Trump IMO. It was the perfect opportunity to demonstrate why incompetent leadership is not such a good idea- even if it feels good to make liberals heads explode.
Fortunately for him, the Nationwide rioting has swooped in to possibly snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
We selected Biden because he seemed most likely to be able to keep the Right wingers who were not enthusiastic about Trump at home on Election Day which would let Democrats leverage their own disdain for Trump to win in November.

Now, Biden finds himself between a rock and a hard place. If he wishes to keep the Luke-warm right leaning independents and disaffected Republicans (and to a certain extent, the moderate Dems now too) on his side he must come out strongly against the violence and destruction coming from the protests, but by doing so he risks losing the support of minorities and the so-called radical left ( groups that he could have counted on as a given had the unrest that is going on not chosen this moment to explode).
The current unrest is a gift to Trump- and the longer it goes on, the better it is for him.

I am looking to Trumps polls in Wisconsin to see what effect this has had on his chances. Before the Kinosha riots, he was still trailing Biden by an average of 3.5 points (according to real clear politics averaging of the polls.
If he experiences a jump in those polls after this weekend, I fear it will be an ill omen for Biden.
 
Last edited:
Distracted1 said:
Covid- by itself, would have sunk Trump IMO. It was the perfect opportunity to demonstrate why incompetent leadership is not such a good idea- even if it feels good to make liberals heads explode.
Fortunately for him, the Nationwide rioting has swooped in to possibly snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. ...
Click to expand...

Nationwide rioting? :rolleyes:

In Seattle and Portland it's a couple of square blocks.

In Wisconsin it was an immediate reaction to yet another cop shooting an unarmed black man. It's already subsiding and I doubt it had anything to do with Trump sending in the National Guard but like everything, Trump takes credit where credit isn't due,

At the Republican Convention they showed images of rioting in SPAIN!!! and implied it was here.

So where is this nationwide rioting?
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
Nationwide rioting? :rolleyes:

In Seattle and Portland it's a couple of square blocks.

In Wisconsin it was an immediate reaction to yet another cop shooting an unarmed black man. It's already subsiding and I doubt it had anything to do with Trump sending in the National Guard but like everything, Trump takes credit where credit isn't due,

At the Republican Convention they showed images of rioting in SPAIN!!! and implied it was here.

So where is this nationwide rioting?
Click to expand...
DC, Philly, Milwalkee, Kinosha, Detroit, Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, Houston ,etc..
Of course, only in specific areas of those cities at any given time.

Apparently, the entire World was not at war during WW 2 either, since battles only took place in specific small areas of the globe.

You wish to quibble about what a "riot" is, feel free.
You can point out how mobs of people destroying things and engaging in other violence only qualifies as "rioting" under some specific set of circumstances that are somehow never quite met in your opinion if you wish.
All the way to a second Trump term even. Then perhaps we can be told how the "law and order" message could not possibly have resounded with any voters because we had "law and order" the whole time.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I still stand behind the over-arching theme that I've had a base trolling/spite mentality is a factor in support for Donald J. Trump in a way that has never been true of any other President.
Click to expand...


Indeed.

I hope Biden understands that, and can make it work to his advantage. A lot of Democrats don't, and I kind of doubt Biden does, either.
 
uke2se said:
If you're not a US national you can't make a political donation. Be sure to select a non-profit in that case, as I believe they can accept foreign donations.
Click to expand...
Pity. Seems the Lincoln Project also requires you to be in a US State.

Any other way for a foreign national to make a difference before this election?
 
Distracted1 said:
Covid- by itself, would have sunk Trump IMO. It was the perfect opportunity to demonstrate why incompetent leadership is not such a good idea- even if it feels good to make liberals heads explode.
Fortunately for him, the Nationwide rioting has swooped in to possibly snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
Click to expand...
The post-fact world is the root problem here. The Mueller investigation was a witch hunt that uncovered nothing. Covid is a hoax/caused by BLM demonstrators and rioters/Trump has done more to combat it than anyone. The protesters are thugs burning police stations and shops to bring about a Marxist revolution. The nebulous Obamagate is a thing. Objective and negative coverage on Trump should be avoided and disregarded because it's exaggerated "fake news". I could go on and on.

The post-fact phenomenon is both endlessly exasperating, and incredibly frightening.
 
Trebuchet said:
Unfortunately, I disagree. It was extremely evident before the 2016 election what an utter loser Trump is. He opened his campaign with blatant racism. He lied repeatedly. The Access Hollywood tape came out. Megyn Kelly had blood coming from her wherever. And much of the country fully approved of it. And most of those folks approve even more now.
Click to expand...

I agree Trump will win and America is ******, you are already doomed to be a third world ********.
NATO has been broken by Trump and Russia is the future for Europe.
 
Remember every right wing. nazi, republican, scum sucking half wit, ****-head idiot will be voting for Trump.
Everyone needs to get out there and vote for Biden.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Put a gun to my head and demand odds, 60/40 Biden/Trump assuming nothing else happens in the next... what 80 days or so and just saying that makes me feel like I just read the Latin inscription in the dusty old leather bound book I found in the cellar of the creepy abandoned house in a horror movie. But I have so much less confidence making such a prediction than I would have in the past.

* I know the fact that the raw math did not give Hillary a "sure thing" have already been discussed and I know how statistics work and that 2016 didn't "break" them but for me the revisionism, for I must call it that, around Trump's chances in 2016 were never about the raw numbers but general cultural and social "feel."
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that sounds about right to me. It is worth pointing out that when it came to 538, they always gave Trump a higher chance than many of the pollsters and modellers. They argued till they were blue in the face that a 99% chance for Clinton was massively overconfident and that at state level, Trump was always within the margin of error in a number of key states, and that that was highly significant as being on one side of the margin of error in one state likely meant that it could hold true for the other states if the error was systematic.

Also, while Michael Moore needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, I seem to recall that he very much warned that Trump's message resonated far more than the media class realized. I think that could well be true now. While a lot of the media are content to say anyone opposing BLM marches is racist, or that those who see the cops as justified must also be racist etc... I think Trump's message that the Democrats are on the side of riots may also be resonating further than much of the media realizes.

And, no, the facts don't matter. That is a crucial point that Clinton et. al missed in 2016, according to Nathan Robinson (and I happen to agree with him):

it is spectacle, not facts, that matters in Trump world. In 2016, Democrats made the mistake of thinking they could “factcheck” their way to victory, pointing out the many ways in which Trump’s statements were false or misleading. To beat Trump you don’t need better facts, though, you need a better narrative. Trump’s message is a simple and powerful one: I love America, they hate America, I will create greatness, they will create poverty, violence and misery. The Biden team leans heavily on carefully pointing out that much of what Trump says is wrong. This is important, but it’s not enough. Hillary Clinton found this out the hard way.

Joe Biden still hasn’t really developed a political identity for the election. He boasts of having the “most progressive platform” since FDR, yet the Democratic convention spurned young leftists like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, choosing instead to showcase anti-Trump Republicans. Some seem to think the best strategy for Biden is just to lie low and be a warm body, a name on the ballot that isn’t Trump. I am certain most Americans cannot name a Biden policy proposal or even his campaign slogan (that’s a trick, he actually has eight campaign slogans). Like Hillary Clinton, Biden has major political liabilities, having been associated with the very administration whose failures Trump was elected by campaigning against.
Click to expand...

Link
 
JoeMorgue said:
* I know the fact that the raw math did not give Hillary a "sure thing" have already been discussed and I know how statistics work and that 2016 didn't "break" them but for me the revisionism, for I must call it that, around Trump's chances in 2016 were never about the raw numbers but general cultural and social "feel."
Click to expand...
Fair enough. And yes, people were too optimistic and complacent in 2016, or should I say trusting. We trusted facts and statistics, and we trusted the American populace to not elect someone as obviously vile, dishonest, and incompetent as Trump. Trump was measured by the wrong yardstick, I suppose.
 
Trump has managed to convince Republicans that Biden is the current President, and everything wrong with 2020 America is his fault and only Trump can fix it.
I put his chances at 50/50.
 
Facts don't matter. And that is so sad. That Trump lies and lies and lies and lies and that doesn't matter is so sad. That he is a sociopath doesn't matter. And that is so sad. That he is a disgusting human being without morals or honor or principals doesn't matter. And that is so sad. That he is a fraud doesn't matter. And that is so sad. That he is a racist and bigot doesn't matter. And that is so sad. That he is a serial adulterer doesn't matter. And that is so sad. That his supporters embrace him for these things is sad. Just so sad.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom