Trump is not going to accept election results Rough and ugly transition ahead.

[rockysmith76]

Your never-ending stream of generic, middle ground posturing is (1) shallower than a puddle (2) is hugely off base in the context of 2020 and (3) cries for a Rocky's Generic Distractions thread in order to contain the tedious, widespread repetition.

Nope, your obsession on Orange Man bad dillutes the political landscape, he will leave, he's at an age of limitations if nothing else, and then we're back to two party bickering and nothing ever getting done. The shallowness is the parasitic clinging to a two party bicker fest where never serves the good of the public.

 

[rockysmith76]

It's hard to disagree. The presidential system of government is considered to be one of America's worst exports. It has failed pretty much every where outside of the US. That it has lasted this long is amazing. It might have continued to succeed, but it has been going downhill since the number of paid lobbyists has exploded. Without major reforms I'm afraid It is doomed.

Weird that we seem to agree, all lobbyists are basically parasitic whores.

 

[acbytesla]

Weird that we seem to agree, all lobbyists are basically parasitic whores.

Not so strange. I'm sure if we sat down and discussed things rationally, we would find other common ground. In 1980, I was a paid intern for the Washington State Democratic Party and one of my closest friends was the head of the Young Republicans. I use to attend the State GOP's yearly barbecue and they knew I was a Democrat and no one cared. Back in those days, it wasn't so ridiculously polarized and insane.

Back to lobbyists. There are different kinds of lobbyists, so it is probably unfair to lump them all onto one group. But to give you an idea of the explosion of them. In DC alone, in the 70s, there were maybe a hundred. There are estimates that today that number ranges from 12,000 to 20,000. Hard to nail down just how many because registration requirements vary depending on certain factors.

 

[sackett]

Let's have a story conference. We're to plan a movie script about a president modeled closely on Schlumpf who attempts to sieze and retain office after a failed try at reelection.

Modeled closely, mind. This guy has no armed force at his command, no friends, no allies foreign or domestic, no political base (he just lost the election, remember), no legal argument, and nothing to offer any potential followers. He has nothing like charisma, and even if he did he has no goverment-controlled media he can use to broadcast his appeal. He claims to possess wealth, but no one knows how much, and only a few deluded poloi believe that he would ever share it with anyone.

How do we plot a takeover story, given those constraints?

Oh yes, I forgot: This is about a US president, not some tottering strongman in a small, poor, weak, isolated country with no history or laws, and a population that doubts they have any rights.

 

[Craig4]

Not to mention the overwhelming denial of the simple truth that both sides suck.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that Trump and Biden suck equally? Okay, if you're waiting for a pure candidate whose never made a Faustian bargain, get comfortable because all you'll be waiting until the end of time. What has Biden done (for which there is evidence not this silly little Ukrainian bull ****) that comes close to being as bad as Trump? Has Biden colluded with a foreign, hostile power to influence the election? Has he tried to subvert the entire electoral process? Sure, Biden is no saint but please don't tell me you can't see these two in terms of scale.

 

[johnny karate]

Not to mention the overwhelming denial of the simple truth that both sides suck.

And yet for some mysterious reason, things only really go to hell when it’s the Republicans running things.

 

[crescent]

Let's have a story conference. We're to plan a movie script about a president modeled closely on Schlumpf who attempts to sieze and retain office after a failed try at reelection.

Modeled closely, mind. This guy has no armed force at his command, no friends, no allies foreign or domestic, no political base (he just lost the election, remember), no legal argument, and nothing to offer any potential followers. He has nothing like charisma, and even if he did he has no goverment-controlled media he can use to broadcast his appeal. He claims to possess wealth, but no one knows how much, and only a few deluded poloi believe that he would ever share it with anyone.

How do we plot a takeover story, given those constraints?

Oh yes, I forgot: This is about a US president, not some tottering strongman in a small, poor, weak, isolated country with no history or laws, and a population that doubts they have any rights.

What is the point of that? Trump has allies, both foreign and domestic - he's very popular in Russia, Israel, and a surprising number of other countries. He has domestic political support, the GOP has proved itself to be very loyal to him, and there is a vast difference between losing an election and having no political support, he has a base that backs him through thick and thin, even if that base is not the majority. He has no need of government controlled media, the most popular "news" source in the nation is very loyal to him as well.

It's like saying "Let's make a scenario about Trump, but first we'll set some preconditions that don't reflect the actuality of Trump's strengths and support."

 

[smartcooky]

Are you seriously trying to suggest that Trump and Biden suck equally? Okay, if you're waiting for a pure candidate whose never made a Faustian bargain, get comfortable because all you'll be waiting until the end of time. What has Biden done (for which there is evidence not this silly little Ukrainian bull ****) that comes close to being as bad as Trump? Has Biden colluded with a foreign, hostile power to influence the election? Has he tried to subvert the entire electoral process? Sure, Biden is no saint but please don't tell me you can't see these two in terms of scale.

Indeed. I would refer rockysmith76 to a partial list I made in another thread. Can you or anyone show me examples of where Biden did any of the following things that Trump has done...

racism and bigotry
misogyny and mistreatment of women
birtherism
open support of white nationalism
attacking the LGBTQ+ community
making laws/EO's that discriminate against LGBTQ+
climate change denial
use of his pardon powers to bribe potential witnesses
had a secret back channel to a hostile foreign power
firing of state officials because they testified against him
ignored unequivocal intelligence from his intelligence chiefs
removal of FBI heads that are leading investigations against him
using of the presidency/vice-presidency to enrich himself and his family
promoting disinformation promulgated by Russian Intelligence
retribution against whistleblowers in spite of laws that explicitly prohibit this

Both sides may suck, but the Biden side only sucks like a cardboard kitchen vacuum bag pump - the Trump side sucks like a Storyville whore!

 

[Segnosaur]

What is the point of that? Trump has allies, both foreign and domestic - he's very popular in Russia, Israel, and a surprising number of other countries.

I guess the question is... Is Trump's support in those other countries because he is a respected leader, or is he popular because he is seen as a useful stooge?

Russian pollster: comrade, do you like trump?
Russian citizen: da.. he makes a good puppet for Putin.


Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

 

[sackett]

What is the point of that? Trump has allies, both foreign and domestic - he's very popular in Russia, Israel, and a surprising number of other countries. He has domestic political support, the GOP has proved itself to be very loyal to him, and there is a vast difference between losing an election and having no political support, he has a base that backs him through thick and thin, even if that base is not the majority. He has no need of government controlled media, the most popular "news" source in the nation is very loyal to him as well.

It's like saying "Let's make a scenario about Trump, but first we'll set some preconditions that don't reflect the actuality of Trump's strengths and support."

All right, then, give us your ostensibly more realistic scenario.

You didn't object to what is, I think, his greatest weakness: no troops, no air force or navy, no militia, no brownshirts, no underground. But hey, the great thing about script-storming is freedom to fantasize.

 

[Lurch]

Not to mention the overwhelming denial of the simple truth that both sides suck.

But not equally. So what's a *realistic* alternative? Right now.

 

[JoeMorgue]

"LOL both sides are the same"....

... unless you're a woman, black, gay, an immigrant, a felon, care about the environment, basic human rights, or us being a functioning democracy in 6 months.

And yes before one of our resident Trump apologists start whining about tribalism I've taken far Left members of this board to task for the same thing; whining that Biden and Trump are both "just more of the same establishment" or other such nonsense.

 

[The Atheist]

Not to mention the overwhelming denial of the simple truth that both sides suck.

You are stating the blindingly obvious.

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

The problem is, as others have pointed out, there are degrees of harm, and there's no doubt your bad orange man is far worse than any alternative.

The Republicans' greatest bait-and-switch to date is imparting the belief to their brown-shirted followers that Russian interference in their democracy is worse than a Democratic government.

 

[acbytesla]

"LOL both sides are the same"....

... unless you're a woman, black, gay, an immigrant, a felon, care about the environment, basic human rights, or us being a functioning democracy in 6 months.

And yes before one of our resident Trump apologists start whining about tribalism I've taken far Left members of this board to task for the same thing; whining that Biden and Trump are both "just more of the same establishment" or other such nonsense.

I absolutely despise it when people say stupid crap like this. They are nowhere near the same.

• One side wants healthcare for all and actually make pharmaceutical companies charge American consumers the same prices they charge citizens of other countries. The other side is protecting Big Pharma.
• One side listens to scientists that say global warming is killing the planet and we should do something about it. The other side denies the science.
• One side thinks workers should be protected, the other side thinks companies should be protected.
• One side thinks COVID is a problem that requires a National solution and effort, the other side thinks it will just go away on its own.
• One side believes in the rule of law that applies to everyone, the other side thinks laws are only there to be used against people of color and Democrats.
• One side is pro-choice, one side is anti-abortion
• One side believes in a wall of separation between religion and government. The other side thinks that an exception should be made for Christianity.
• One side not only balanced the US budget three years in a row, they returned surpluses to our coffers. The other side, not only never balanced a budget in the last 70 years, they usually created massive deficits.
• One side thinks protecting the environment is important, the other side is destroying as many regulations as possible.

That's a good start. There are many more differences.
The point is they are not equal.

 

[thaiboxerken]

And he wins or loses the rest of us are stuck listening to the whining hissy fits of either side, because he did win and stole the election or Biden and the Chinese forced him out and the fact remains, BOTH. SIDES. SUCK.

A murderer.
A jaywalker.

BOTH ARE CRIMINALS!!!

 

[Belz...]

I have to stick up for Cain here. He's not being dishonest and he absolutely does know what democracy means.

Even though I provided definitions which contradict him and which he ignored? How can you even say that?

It's clear now that facts, arguments and definitions are not as important as personal preferences, feelings and preferences. Rocky was right; both sides are equally bad at this. Left or right, whenever facts disagree with you, you ignore them.

So what use is skepticism in a place like this?

 

[RedStapler]

Even though I provided definitions which contradict him and which he ignored? How can you even say that?

It's clear now that facts, arguments and definitions are not as important as personal preferences, feelings and preferences. Rocky was right; both sides are equally bad at this. Left or right, whenever facts disagree with you, you ignore them.

So what use is skepticism in a place like this?

Yeah, why isn't everyone a 'centrist'. Why does no one understand that you can hate 'both sides' this way?

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah, why isn't everyone a 'centrist'. Why does no one understand that you can hate 'both sides' this way?

There are very fine people.... on both sides!

 

[Craig4]

Yeah, why isn't everyone a 'centrist'. Why does no one understand that you can hate 'both sides' this way?

But what if one side, in this case, Trump deserves to be hated more?

 

[varwoche]

Trump's quote about "very fine people" is useful to Democrats. They aren't going to help people find the wider context that he made it clear a few seconds later that he wasn't talking about neo-nazis. They tell politicians lies. Just like when Kamala painted Joe as some kind of racist/racist enabler in the debate, and now brushes that off as something she said because it was a debate. Some stupid lie Trump has told about the size of a crowd isn't going to offend me much in comparison.

The difference between us is that you think your guy is honest. I say you can't trust any of them.

I want to come back to this and take it baby step at a time. First, I want to make sure we haven't had a failure to communicate from the get-go.

Perhaps you acknowledge the fact that it was indeed a rally that was organized, promoted, and attended by unabashed neo-nazis / white supremacists. But Trump was unaware. And since he was unaware, "good people on both sides" isn't as bad as it seems.

Is that your position?

I posted this 3 days ago in two threads. Result: crickets.

The epitome of impermeability.

Add: To be clear, I think the notion that Trump was unaware is bogus.