Cont: Trans Women are not Women 3

[TurkeysGhost]

On that note...

Males: We feel like we're lesbians trapped in a man's body!
Trans Allies: Oh you poor dears, we'll make sure you get counted as a lesbian.
Lesbians: Um... no, we don't want to have sex with you, we don't care for dick.
Trans Allies: Horrible evil transphobe! You must not be a real lesbian, a real lesbian would want to have sex with other women even if they did have a penis!

More like:

Trans people: We're an extremely at risk population that is suffering for want of social services
Trans Allies: Oh you poor dears, we'll make sure you get access to resources
TERFS: Yeah but not in my shelter, let'em die
Trans Allies: Horrible evil transphobe!

 

[Belz...]

More like:

Trans people: We're an extremely at risk population that is suffering for want of social services
Trans Allies: Oh you poor dears, we'll make sure you get access to resources
TERFS: Yeah but not in my shelter, let'em dieTrans Allies: Horrible evil transphobe!

I think you gave yourself away, there.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I think you gave yourself away, there.

One of the many battlegrounds of the Great TERF War is battered women's shelters.

There are some TERFs fighting tooth and nail to keep vulnerable trans women out of these shelters, which means keeping them in extremely dangerous situations.

My snarky post is only a tad hyperbolic. Defending "real womanhood" is the excuse given to throw trans women to the wolves.

 

[Meadmaker]

I always thought that "lesbian trapped in a man's body" bit was intended as comedy. Turns out a lot of other people took it as a recommendation.

When I was in the 7th grade, it was.


So what began as a Junior High School joke is now accepted reality in some places.

 

[Emily's Cat]

One of the many battlegrounds of the Great TERF War is battered women's shelters.

There are some TERFs fighting tooth and nail to keep vulnerable trans women out of these shelters, which means keeping them in extremely dangerous situations.

My snarky post is only a tad hyperbolic. Defending "real womanhood" is the excuse given to throw trans women to the wolves.

That's not really an accurate representation of the case though. With the exception of a very, very few people, mostly women are fighting against self-identification alone allowing people who have male bodies and who present as male to have access to women's shelters.

 

[Joe Random]

I always thought that "lesbian trapped in a man's body" bit was intended as comedy. Turns out a lot of other people took it as a recommendation.

I remember when the comedic thrust behind this was its absurdity.



Would never stand in the remake today.

 

[Belz...]

One of the many battlegrounds of the Great TERF War is battered women's shelters.

I'm confused. Are "men" automatically bigger and stronger than women or do they have to be males as well?

 

[Rolfe]

More like:

Trans people: We're an extremely at risk population that is suffering for want of social services
Trans Allies: Oh you poor dears, we'll make sure you get access to resources
TERFS: Yeah but not in my shelter, let'em die
Trans Allies: Horrible evil transphobe!

QED, really.

 

[Elaedith]

That's not really an accurate representation of the case though. With the exception of a very, very few people, mostly women are fighting against self-identification alone allowing people who have male bodies and who present as male to have access to women's shelters.

A central tenet of orthodox/fundamentalist trans ideology is that anyone self-identifying as a woman does not have a male body. Hence the female penis.

 

[Lithrael]

They just asked what I’d like to see. Nobody said it had to make everyone happy. Nothing will make everyone happy.

 

[Emily's Cat]

They just asked what I’d like to see. Nobody said it had to make everyone happy. Nothing will make everyone happy.

Fair enough. For adults, I can get behind your locker room approach. I'm a bit less skeptical about middle and high school locker rooms though.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I still maintain that all of my conversations with actual transgender people have been reasonable and common sense. It really does seem to be the Allies that are a problem.

Well, okay, there are a couple of very media-driven transpeople that I think are also huge jerks and trolls, but I don't think they're representative. And my niece is a giant douche, but she was a giant douche before she was my niece too. Now she's just a giant douche with boobs.

 

[theprestige]

Well, sports is its own big can of worms and what I’d like to see happen (massively advantaged people sensibly self selecting out) is a utopian ideal so I really don’t know what to do there.

Bath/locker/changing rooms I’d like to see promotion to the norm of an a-gendered approach normalizing people wanting backup if they’re uncomfortable with anyone full stop. Weird behavior and loitering should be the socially disapproved thing. Asking someone to let them know when the person that freaked them out has left should be ok no matter what. Long term hanging out in delicate shared spaces should be socially disapproved. People running the building should be allowed to ask people to leave after x minutes (and should at least lip service enforce it on everyone not just the few people that set off specific bells). That kind of thing.

It occurs to me that while sports is its own can of worms, answering the question for women's sports effectively answers the question everywhere else. Women's sports will need an answer at some point, and that answer will have to spell out specific, verifiable criteria for eligibility. Once you've gotten that, you can use that answer as the guidelines for everything else.

 

[The Atheist]

Women's sports will need an answer at some point, and that answer will have to spell out specific, verifiable criteria for eligibility.

I think women's athletics has hit it right on the button with maximum testosterone level.

While that doesn't completely remove the advantage for weightlifting and a couple of other strength sports, I don't think it's significant enough to matter.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Using "dysphoria" to describe the condition suggests that "it's all in her head", doesn't it?

Not any more than any other mental health problem. Which means that the people who treat it as such are the problem, not the people with the dysphoria.

To put it another way, depression is also "all in her head", but that doesn't mean that the people who say "well, just cheer up then" aren't ununderstanding, unempathetic, *********.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Seems to be.

Then you would do better to read what I write, rather than imposing your own meaning on what I write.

Then again, I forgot, you're the person who still hasn't retracted your accusation that I don't care about cis women being raped because I voiced the option that I care about trans women being raped.

It would be a lot easier if you'd share your views rather than arguing against the views of other people, though.

I have. That you choose either to ignore them or to completely alter what I've actually said is not my problem.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

That's not really an accurate representation of the case though. With the exception of a very, very few people, mostly women are fighting against self-identification alone allowing people who have male bodies and who present as male to have access to women's shelters.

Remember when earlier in the thread I shared a piece of research which indicated that the people who run women's shelters are and have been admitting trans women on self-identification alone for years, and that both they and the cis women in the shelters were welcoming and supportive of this? I guess not. Or you have some more compelling research that contradicts it.

 

[Rolfe]

Shocking transphobia. https://twitter.com/BuckAngel/status/1292970802812301312

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Remember when earlier in the thread I shared a piece of research which indicated that the people who run women's shelters are and have been admitting trans women on self-identification alone for years, and that both they and the cis women in the shelters were welcoming and supportive of this? I guess not. Or you have some more compelling research that contradicts it.

I would humbly suggest that things like women's shelter are just a pretextual wedge issue for the TERFs who really just don't like the idea of trans women being considered "real" like cis women. Like the Great Bathroom Panics, it's an almost entirely imagined problem.

It strikes me as very similar in tone to the great Gay panics, where bigots insisted it wasn't bigotry to treat all gay men as pedophiles and wouldn't stop talking about the necessity of excluding them from having access to kids through educational jobs/volunteering.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think women's athletics has hit it right on the button with maximum testosterone level.

While that doesn't completely remove the advantage for weightlifting and a couple of other strength sports, I don't think it's significant enough to matter.

It is enough to matter. Male skeletal structure doesn't change after sex change post puberty. And that conveys advantages in many sports, including any which rely on running speed.