Cont: The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[slyjoe]

So what are the other options? That was a hospital that was out of beds, and the only hospital in the county.

I'm sure you can think of other options than "home". I already gave you one.

Then you are talking about tying up limited resources like helicopters and ambulances that will not be available for other emergencies. Equipment and manpower are not unlimited and as such need to be used where they can do the most good.

Correct. And that is what AZ is doing. They are trying to balance bed usage by transferring COVID patients between hospitals to try to keep all hospitals under 100% utilization.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Wow it really seems to me like just doing the simple things that literally nearly every other country in the world did to keep the outbreak from spreading would just be a lot simpler then playing musical chairs with ICU beds.

Yeah would could run some sort of weird reverse traveling salesman problem to mathematically perfect ICU Bed Management... OR WE COULD HAVE JUST ALL PUT ON THE ******* MASKS AND STAYED HOME FOR A FEW WEEKS WHEN THIS ******** ALL STARTED LIKE THE PEOPLE WITH BRAINS ALL TOLD US TO DO!

 

[Resume]

Bill Mitchell host of Your Voice America Tweeted

@mitchellvii
I keep hearing, "If masks cause oxygen deprivation, how can nurses and doctors wear them all day?"
250,000 Americans die every year from medical mistakes.
Did it occur to anyone maybe the mistakes are the result of doctors and nurses being oxygen deprived?

A pulse oximeter should be able to answer that one pretty quickly

Pretty much.

COVID-19: Doctor wears six face masks to debunk oxygen deprivation myth.

 

[carlosy]

Pretty much.

COVID-19: Doctor wears six face masks to debunk oxygen deprivation myth.

To be fair, if oxygen deprivation would be true, I am sure it wouldn't happen in one minute. Afaik, the argument by those who think masks could do that, is that oxygen deprivation happens when wearing masks over a period of time, not in a matter of minutes.

 

[Craig4]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/politics/melania-trump-rose-garden-renovation/index.html

After checking the Covid-19 new cases and test positivity rate, I was just thinking the White House needs to redesign the Rose Garden. Kind of reminds you of Elanor Roosevelt, the way the First Lady has thrown herself into the crisis.

 

[Belz...]

Wow it really seems to me like just doing the simple things that literally nearly every other country in the world did to keep the outbreak from spreading would just be a lot simpler then playing musical chairs with ICU beds.

Yeah would could run some sort of weird reverse traveling salesman problem to mathematically perfect ICU Bed Management... OR WE COULD HAVE JUST ALL PUT ON THE ******* MASKS AND STAYED HOME FOR A FEW WEEKS WHEN THIS ******** ALL STARTED LIKE THE PEOPLE WITH BRAINS ALL TOLD US TO DO!

Yeah but muh freedom!!!

Some people seem to want to always do the opposite of what people ask them to do. Ironically, these rebels are as much defined by what other ask of them as conformists.

 

[Resume]

To be fair, if oxygen deprivation would be true, I am sure it wouldn't happen in one minute. Afaik, the argument by those who think masks could do that, is that oxygen deprivation happens when wearing masks over a period of time, not in a matter of minutes.

Not if you follow WHO guidelines. But anti-mask nutters don't, won't.

One of the most common themes in misleading posts surrounding the use of masks is that they limit the amount of oxygen getting into the body.

"Thin paper or cloth masks will not lead to hypoxia. Surgeons operate for hours wearing them. They don't get these problems," says Prof Keith Neal, an infectious disease expert.

The WHO says: "The prolonged use of medical masks when properly worn, does not cause CO2 intoxication nor oxygen deficiency.

"While wearing a medical mask, make sure it fits properly and that it is tight enough to allow you to breathe normally. Do not re-use a disposable mask and always change it as soon as it gets damp."

 

[carlitos]

Wow it really seems to me like just doing the simple things that literally nearly every other country in the world did to keep the outbreak from spreading would just be a lot simpler then playing musical chairs with ICU beds.

According to the New York Times, there was a real inequity in care between private and public hospitals, let alone the "overflow" hospitals. You were far more likely to die in a public hospital. Only something like only ~50 patients were transferred from public to private hospitals throughout the whole wave of the pandemic there. Also, the Javits Center was just about empty most of the time, with maybe 20-30 patients, because there were rules about ambulances taking patients straight to real hospitals for triage first.

I don't think that hospitals are really well set up for transferring around patients with contagious respiratory diseases. There are logistics, medical ethics, rules, ambulance contracts, and plenty of financial / insurance issues that get in the way.

The author of the article I mention is on today's "The Daily" podcast

The Mistakes New York Made [podcast link]

 

[ponderingturtle]

Correct. And that is what AZ is doing. They are trying to balance bed usage by transferring COVID patients between hospitals to try to keep all hospitals under 100% utilization.

And when that becomes impossible?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Yeah but muh freedom!!!

Some people seem to want to always do the opposite of what people ask them to do. Ironically, these rebels are as much defined by what other ask of them as conformists.

Contrarianism under the guise of "thinking for yourself" really is the new conformity.

 

[Craig4]

And when that becomes impossible?

Oh, that's an easy one. They just die in the hallways.

 

[Belz...]

Contrarianism under the guise of "thinking for yourself" really is the new conformity.

Oh, I've always said so. I've noted for a long time that a lot of people who rebel manage to all dress the same way, etc.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Oh, that's an easy one. They just die in the hallways.

... of totally unrelated conditions of course.

 

[ponderingturtle]

... of totally unrelated conditions of course.

And of course the whole contagion thing in those hallways is not going to be a problem.

 

[Craig4]

... of totally unrelated conditions of course.

I have enough faith in the American people that there's a number of dead bodies that they just won't be able to get past. There is the mud being flung that not all people with Covid-19 who die don't die of Covid but I just don't see where that's sticking. The filthy Trumptrash will always support Trump. We seem to forget that he only won by about 77,000 votes across three states.

Quantity has a quality all its own and I don't see anything other than the body count on the right side of the screen having an impact. Remember, Trump's message failed except for a margin of 77,000 votes in three states. Those votes are now in states with Dem governors and Dem Secretaries of State. The anti Trump vote won't be supressed and if it was who cares? The people Trump lost are the neighbors of the people Trump needs. You can't suppress just half the suburbs.

 

[Trebuchet]

Yeah but muh freedom!!!

Some people seem to want to always do the opposite of what people ask them to do. Ironically, these rebels are as much defined by what other ask of them as conformists.

You've misspelled "freedumb".

 

[Lurch]

Oh, I've always said so. I've noted for a long time that a lot of people who rebel manage to all dress the same way, etc.

I've made that observation back in my teen years. The rebels often are as bloody conformist as the rest of us. They just gravitate to a smaller cabal of clones so that their conformity is a bit less obvious. We really are a tribal species.

 

[newyorkguy]

Speaking of masks, the Texas Tribune reports:

The state recorded its largest number of daily new cases on July 15, at 10,791. On Sunday [July 26th], that number was 5,810. Epidemiologists and disease modelers have said they are cautiously optimistic that the mask mandate Gov. Greg Abbott issued three weeks ago is helping the state turn a corner in its efforts to contain the outbreak. Although a plateauing of new virus cases would hardly represent a victory over the pandemic, it could help keep hospitals from being overrun with sick patients. Texas Tribune link

The bad news is, the number of deaths in Texas is increasing and both Texas and hospitals have begun to withhold data on capacity.

Texas reached another grim milestone Sunday when it surpassed 5,000 deaths from the new coronavirus. In doing so, the state reported 1,000 deaths in six days, four days faster than it took to hit that total the previous time...Hospital data is incomplete. The state isn’t releasing the information it collects about how many beds individual hospitals have available. And only a fraction of the state’s hospitals, cities and counties are providing that information to the public on their own.

Event

 

[JeanTate]

What will Trump say when the number of Covid-19 deaths exceeds 200,000 (assuming that’s before November 3)?

 

[slyjoe]

And when that becomes impossible?

I don't know if AZ will get there. If they do I guess we will see. One of the problems I see is that so much of this is being directed by politicians; e.g., they say they have "surge" beds available but never address where they are going to get the personnel. Or how long it will take to get those beds open.