Cont: The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[Beelzebuddy]

If you expand all those links, you find one incident where a vaccine was actually determined to cause problems in infants and withdrawn from the market, one where a European vaccine that was never licensed in the U.S. caused problems, and a couple cases where contamination -- including by broken glass -- caused problems. The other investigations determined that allegations of ill effects were not supported. I have enough confidence in the process that I'll get a covid vaccine the first day I can.

Most vaccines are not 100% reliable, but I doubt people change their behavior after getting a shot. Flu vaccines provide notoriously variable protection, but I don't see people who have been vaccinated behaving differently from people who haven't.

We can't wear masks and sit inside forever. If the U.S. had responded like Germany or Japan, we would already be past the worst. But now here we are. A partially effective vaccine has to be better than no vaccine.

You're missing that all those vaccines also underwent the scrutinous testing you're questioning the value of. If you want a horror story to say that yes, medical testing is very important, look up Thalidomide.

 

[Darat]

You're right, it takes years to determine whether there are long term health problems relating to a vaccine. No point vaccinating people if 5 years down the line a significant proportion develop life limiting conditions as a result.

Silly billy! He can only serve 2 terms so why do we need to worry about side effects in 5 years time?

 

[Bob001]

You're missing that all those vaccines also underwent the scrutinous testing you're questioning the value of. If you want a horror story to say that yes, medical testing is very important, look up Thalidomide.

I'm not questioning the necessity of "scrutinous" testing. I'm observing that medical professionals, including NIH scientists, feel that they can accelerate testing safely in the face of an emergency.

I know about thalidomide. It was never approved for use in the '60s because it didn't pass U.S. standards at the time. But that horror story resulted in much tougher standards around the world. And vaccines work differently from sleeping pills, as it was originally marketed. I'm willing to bet researchers know the difference.

 

[Aridas]

Just to poke at a development in the attack on Fauci tale...

Sinclair to air segment suggesting Dr. Fauci created the coronavirus (Update: broadcast on hold)

It's good that it was put on hold - after news spread about it and its contents. Only on hold, though, as Sinclair works to "provide additional context" before showing it. Because we totally need "Plandemic" crap that they fully admit has been strongly discredited added to the BS that Sinclair forces its TV stations to run.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It doesn't take years to determine if a vaccine provoked the correct antibody response. Also, doctors in the specialty indicated that a vaccine could be ready next year. There was no indication that they'd have to use extraordinary measures to do so.

ETA: It's less a global emergency at this point than a US emergency, one that could still be managed with strict lockdowns.

Actually, there is a bit of resurgence in countries trying to reopen. And surely Brazil, South Africa, India and other countries are in full crises as well.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Different link here. Actually seems pretty trivial, all things considered. Keeping staff healthy really is a kind of maintenance.

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/0...abeling-the-expense-building-maintenance.html

Thanks for a link not behind a paywall.

I think people are focusing on the wrong point:

Business Insider points out that the RNC mask purchase came at a time when Donald Trump was publicly refusing to wear a mask – months after the CDC started urging Americans to wear them. ...

The notion that Republican Party officials would actively conceal the purchase of face coverings is proof that the GOP is more concerned about pleasing Donald Trump than they are about saving American lives. ...

The Republican National Committee may have tried to conceal their use of face masks, but what they can’t do is cover up just how catastrophic Donald Trump’s pandemic response has been.

I wonder too how many hospitals didn't have enough PPE during that time and which kind of masks they bought.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Just to poke at a development in the attack on Fauci tale...

Sinclair to air segment suggesting Dr. Fauci created the coronavirus (Update: broadcast on hold)

It's good that it was put on hold - after news spread about it and its contents. Only on hold, though, as Sinclair works to "provide additional context" before showing it. Because we totally need "Plandemic" crap that they fully admit has been strongly discredited added to the BS that Sinclair forces its TV stations to run.

Trump has repeatedly tried to blame his lack of an early response on Fauci.

But this nonsense is beyond horrendous:

Bolling interviews discredited researcher Judy Mikovits, the central figure in the conspiracy theory film Plandemic. Mikovits’ woo-filled statements include claims that: The virus behind COVID-19 was man-made; hospitals are being bribed to over-report COVID-19 deaths; wearing a mask “activates your own virus”; and that getting a flu shot not only increases the odds of catching COVID-19, but "If you've ever had a flu vaccine, you were injected with coronaviruses."

Your flu vaccine contained coronavirus and the masks trigger it?

Watch, they won't show it but it will be out across social media by the CTers in no time.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Bill Mitchell host of Your Voice America Tweeted

@mitchellvii
I keep hearing, "If masks cause oxygen deprivation, how can nurses and doctors wear them all day?"
250,000 Americans die every year from medical mistakes.
Did it occur to anyone maybe the mistakes are the result of doctors and nurses being oxygen deprived?

 

[The Don]

Bill Mitchell host of Your Voice America Tweeted

@mitchellvii
I keep hearing, "If masks cause oxygen deprivation, how can nurses and doctors wear them all day?"
250,000 Americans die every year from medical mistakes.
Did it occur to anyone maybe the mistakes are the result of doctors and nurses being oxygen deprived?

A pulse oximeter should be able to answer that one pretty quickly

 

[Craig4]

I'm kind of thinking that Moscow Mitch just torpedoed any hope of the GOP keeping the Senate yesterday. With enhanced unemployment set to run out on Friday, he said it would take a couple of weeks to hammer out a new deal. That's going to go over big.

 

[The Don]

I'm kind of thinking that Moscow Mitch just torpedoed any hope of the GOP keeping the Senate yesterday. With enhanced unemployment set to run out on Friday, he said it would take a couple of weeks to hammer out a new deal. That's going to go over big.

The right wing media fog horn will find a way to blame the Democrats

 

[Craig4]

The right wing media fog horn will find a way to blame the Democrats

I don't think that's going to work. Of the seven toss ups, only one is a Democrat incumbent leaning toward a Republican challenger. The other six toss-ups are Republican incumbents trailing to Dem challengers.

 

[alfaniner]

I'm kind of thinking that Moscow Mitch just torpedoed any hope of the GOP keeping the Senate yesterday. With enhanced unemployment set to run out on Friday, he said it would take a couple of weeks to hammer out a new deal. That's going to go over big.

Won't matter. Nothing that happens matters until oh, two weeks before the Election. Peoples' memories are too short.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Mitch is causing people to lose their housing. Trump is making it very hard to vote by mail. People without addresses have very hard times trying to register to vote.
They aren't worried about all the unemployed voting against them because they're minimizing the threat with all of their suppression methods.

 

[Andy_Ross]

President Trump’s National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien has reportedly tested positive for COVID-19.
He got it at a 'family event'

 

[JoeMorgue]

Poor people are one of Trump's biggest demographic. Making more of them won't hurt him.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think you are talking about two different things. The ones in the hallways are not necessarily dying or have been given up on. Secondly, you don't necessarily know who is going to die.

Why do people go to in-patient hospice to die? End of life often requires palliative care.

Because they are being triaged into the to little chance at survival to expend resources on that could be used instead for patients who have a reasonable chance at survival. Your statement was that instead of being sent home to die they should die in the hospital somewhere, and so the question is where will we make room for them to die in the hospital and what are we doing with the patients who are already there?

What about when you run out of beds in total?

 

[slyjoe]

Because they are being triaged into the to little chance at survival to expend resources on that could be used instead for patients who have a reasonable chance at survival. Your statement was that instead of being sent home to die they should die in the hospital somewhere, and so the question is where will we make room for them to die in the hospital and what are we doing with the patients who are already there?

What about when you run out of beds in total?

I did not say they should die in the hospital. I said they shouldn't necessarily be sent home.

I haven't looked at what Florida is doing, but aren't they close to being out of beds?

As to those in the "gonna die" stage, my only point was that sending them home isn't the only option.

 

[acbytesla]

This is sort of political post about COVID. Friday I ventured into a Car audio store in the small town of Rainier, Oregon. It's a timber town on the Columbia River. I put on a mask before I got out of my car and the store owner who wasn't wearing a mask told me I didn't have to wear a mask in his store.

I knew he was being friendly, but I couldn't help, but think this was stubborn stupidity on so many levels. The man was clearly healthy and strong. I'm sure he viewed himself to be invincible. There was also the vibe of being a rebel and I'll be damned if the government is going to tell him what to do.

Nobody likes wearing the damn mask. I bloody hate it. But I'm going to listen to Doctors and Scientists.

The sooner we stop being stubborn and just do the little things, the sooner we can put this behind us.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I did not say they should die in the hospital. I said they shouldn't necessarily be sent home.

I haven't looked at what Florida is doing, but aren't they close to being out of beds?

As to those in the "gonna die" stage, my only point was that sending them home isn't the only option.

So what are the other options? That was a hospital that was out of beds, and the only hospital in the county. Then you are talking about tying up limited resources like helicopters and ambulances that will not be available for other emergencies. Equipment and manpower are not unlimited and as such need to be used where they can do the most good.