Ed Do you like your cheese?

[Sideroxylon]

Won't someone think of the strawmen?

Sure someone will imagine them.

 

[Bob001]

People here grew up with Coon Cheese. There’s a packet in our refrigerator.
.....

There is (or used to be) a candy called Licorice Babies.
https://www.carolscandycorner.com/licoricebabies.html

As recently as the 1960s, they were commercially marketed and sold as "N(word) Babies." Times change.

 

[The Greater Fool]

It's not nonsensical. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but a bunch of white people being offended on behalf of black people doesn't really speak to me.

Nor does black people being offended on behalf of black people "speak to you," since you've discounted them as mere anecdotes. Really, I thought society had moved beyond having to statistically prove that each and every racial slur in a slightly different context is just as offensive as ever.

I am baffled by the idea that you believe that speaking out against racially insensitive comments that are not directed at you personally are somehow unnecessary, unappreciated, or worthless. In point of fact it is quite valuable that people directly unaffected take a principled stand against such racial insults.

If the Martin Niemöller quote ever had meaning it is here and now. Here is your chance to speak, and not only do you refuse to do so, you dismiss others that do.

You may enjoy the last word. The cows have come home here.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

There is (or used to be) a candy called Licorice Babies.
https://www.carolscandycorner.com/licoricebabies.html

As recently as the 1960s, they were commercially marketed and sold as "N(word) Babies." Times change.

Negro?

 

[Belz...]

Nor does black people being offended on behalf of black people "speak to you," since you've discounted them as mere anecdotes.

But they are anecdotes. I want to know if we have any statistical clue as to what black people think about the brand name. Are they generally offended, or not? It's a simple question, even though the answer might be complicated or opaque.

I am baffled by the idea that you believe that speaking out against racially insensitive comments that are not directed at you personally are somehow unnecessary, unappreciated, or worthless. In point of fact it is quite valuable that people directly unaffected take a principled stand against such racial insults.

Did you not read my post? I made it clear, I believe, that in the past some white folks spoke out against things supposedly offensive to minorities when said minorities disagreed. Should action be taken to protect the feelings of those whose feelings aren't even hurt because some other group thinks they should be hurt? That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Venom]

Oh come on everyone knows it's because KFC breed a special race of mutant poultry with extra drumsticks and the FDA wouldn't let them call it "chicken" anymore.

every time I hear of that urban legend.

 

[Sideroxylon]

This is the guy who drove hard on this issue for decades.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hagan


He also campaigned against the naming of a sports stand that was a disgusting racial slur.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I feel guilty for being white because I've had unearned privileges from that.

You don't have unearned privileges. You simply have societal privilege that isn't available to some other people. You shouldn't feel guilty about having that privilege; you should be seeking ways to extend that same privilege to everyone.

'Privilege' is the worst word for this phenomenon. It causes reactions like yours, where people feel guilty for no good reason. You've done nothing wrong. You've committed no actions for which to feel guilt. You didn't build the system, you didn't create the disparity. It also causes defensiveness in people who feel that they are being attacked for simply being born into a country.

Privilege isn't something earned or unearned. It's simply the other side of disadvantage. It's recognition that what is normal operating procedure for you isn't the same experience that someone else has. Feeling guilty about having been born white is not going to solve the problem at all. It doesn't even address it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Well, you created this thread, so why did this whole thing about name changes trigger you so much?

Arthwollipot started the thread.

 

[Modified]

Many years ago in Fort Wayne we had long-serving and well-respected mayor named Harry Baals^WP, whose name was pronounced like "hairy balls." There was a minor controversy a while back because there was a movement to name the new city hall after him, but that was nixed by the city government, for obvious reasons. Today his descendants still use the same spelling, but they pronounce their name like "bales."

I know a couple with last name "Aho" when I met them I asked if it was pronounced "ah-ho". No, they said, it's "A-ho". Hopefully none of their descendants are named "Harry".

 

[Emily's Cat]

Thanks for that bit of history unknown to me.

Riding in the front of the slippery slope toboggan. An employer has asked that I go through many of their security policy/procedure documents replacing the terms "whitelist/blacklist" "white hat/black hat"
Wish they would find a better term for "Penetration Test"

And stop abbreviating "Analyst" to the first four letters.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Kinda surprised the name lasted so long. I get it that it's named after the creator/founder but still. Is not "coon" a racial insult in the US? In the UK it's a pretty well established racial slur.

I'm still shocked that Canada has a milk just for gay and lesbian people.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I am white. I wouldn't by the product because I find the name offensive. My assumption is my spouse would dislike and/or be offended.

My spouse is black. I just asked if she would like me to buy that product. The look I got was one that said I was in danger of spousal wrath while she responded "No."

"Why not?"

"What's wrong with you? The name."


I wonder if this satisfies you?

Just for curiosity sake, does her initial response change if you tell her that the founder of the company's last name was Coon, and it was named after him?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I get your argument. And what you're stating I often see it expressed in groups on the ends of political spectrum (left and right) and it reeks of imperialism and paternalism.

I don't understand the connection to imperialism and paternalism here.

ETA: I see your response... but i'm not clear whether you're agreeing with Belz or not.

 

[The Greater Fool]

Just for curiosity sake, does her initial response change if you tell her that the founder of the company's last name was Coon, and it was named after him?

I just posed your question to her. She thought a few seconds before saying that no, it's still a problem.

 

[EHocking]

But isn't the Ozzy word 'coon' an aboriginal word to begin with?

No.
It has always been a racial epithet inherited from the British.

One of our great wine regions is Coonawarra. Could be next up.

No.
“Coonawarra” is widely accepted as Bindjali Aboriginal word meaning 'wild honeysuckle'.
Australia has sporadically conducted campaigns to replace racially offensive place names, but stories resulting in names such as AfricanAmericanmans Bay are highly exaggerated.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I just posed your question to her. She thought a few seconds before saying that no, it's still a problem.

Thank you for asking.

 

[Planigale]

No.
It has always been a racial epithet inherited from the British.
No.
“Coonawarra” is widely accepted as Bindjali Aboriginal word meaning 'wild honeysuckle'.
Australia has sporadically conducted campaigns to replace racially offensive place names, but stories resulting in names such as AfricanAmericanmans Bay are highly exaggerated.

To defend the Brits (as a non-white Brit), it seems unlikely that this originated from Brits. As I understand it the term is originally a shortened form of Raccoon, a native animal from North America that is not found in Europe. Almost certainly this must be an American import. I cannot remember if it was used in Tom sawyer or Huck Finn, it may have come to the UK and Australia with US troops in WW2?

 

[angrysoba]

It's my impression that the slur is mostly used in the US, but I could be wrong.

No, it has been mentioned numerous times in this thread that the word "coon" is an offensive word in the UK as well. In fact, most Australians are perfectly aware that "Coon" shares its name with an offensive word. If you ask an Australian, approximately 0% of adults will be surprised to hear it also shares its name with a racial epithet.

In the current global market of ideas it's also easy for someone in one country to claim to be offended at something in another country.

Yes, it is, but so what? The campaign against Coon cheese's name is literally an indigenous one, not one that has just been drummed up by foreign stickybeaks.

No, you've shown a single data point.

The data point in question is the black Australian guy, specifically an indigenous Australian (such as an Aborigine) who is campaigning for it to be changed. Apparently it has been going on for some time.

It's not nonsensical. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but a bunch of white people being offended on behalf of black people doesn't really speak to me. Remember the Redskins nonsense? Turns out most NAs didn't care about it.

Is this true? If so, how many did care? How many need to care before it becomes a problem?

 

[angrysoba]

To defend the Brits (as a non-white Brit), it seems unlikely that this originated from Brits. As I understand it the term is originally a shortened form of Raccoon, a native animal from North America that is not found in Europe. Almost certainly this must be an American import. I cannot remember if it was used in Tom sawyer or Huck Finn, it may have come to the UK and Australia with US troops in WW2?

I think the point is that it was commonly used by British people, and it was through them that it became used in Australia.