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Split Thread Tearing Down Statues Associated With Racial Injustice

arthwollipot said:
I'd like to know what metacristi thinks "progressivism" means. 'Cause it sure doesn't seem to be what I think it means.
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Alls I know is before I even tried to read that rant the words "Ottoman Empire" jumped out at me and the left side of my brain looked at the right site of my brain and said "It's dark in here. And we may die."
 
William Parcher said:
She is White, no matter what color they make her. This is Disney and don't let them fool you. There is no limit to their cash and talent for the creation of illusion.
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It doesn't matter what color her skin is. She is a product of systemic racism and White supremacy.
 
JoeMorgue said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie
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It's a regional reference, used long before the civil war.

"The South" is also a term mostly used for states that were in the Confederacy.


What should we start calling Dixieland jazz?

It's just silly. Is there an appropriate name for that place where they say "Y'all" a lot? (Texas excluded. Texas doesn't seem to be part of Dixie, despite being part of the CSA. I don't really think Florida is Dixie either, but maybe Floridians disagree.)
 
mumblethrax said:
I tend to think of Grant's reputation as largely being the result of post-war triumphalism. I don't see him as an especially good man, and he was a terrible president. But he did help win the Civil War. Then again, so did Sherman. There's a gaudy statue of that guy in Manhattan, that I would not miss if it disappeared tomorrow.
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Grant was a very good man; read a recent biography or two. He had some spectacular failures as President, but he also had several positive achievements which he generally hasn't gotten enough credit for, such as cracking down on the Ku Klux Klan, and adopting a far more humane policy toward Native Americans than many of his predecessors. And even some of his failures were due to his having good ideas that were ahead of their time, such as civil service reform.
 
Meadmaker said:
It's a regional reference, used long before the civil war.

"The South" is also a term mostly used for states that were in the Confederacy.


What should we start calling Dixieland jazz?

It's just silly. Is there an appropriate name for that place where they say "Y'all" a lot? (Texas excluded. Texas doesn't seem to be part of Dixie, despite being part of the CSA. I don't really think Florida is Dixie either, but maybe Floridians disagree.)
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As someone who hopes to become a transplanted Floridian next month (assuming I get one of the jobs I've applied for), I have to say that it depends on what part of Florida you're talking about. Ironically, North Florida is the most "Southern" part of the state. In fact, the Panhandle (where I'll be moving) is sometimes referred to as the "Redneck Riviera."
 
You can be a "good man" but if you fight a war against a country that country isn't going to put statues of you up in it.

That's why all the side discussion are red herrings. It's not just a matter of ranking these people on some good/bad scale, it's not just a matter of a deep philosophical debate about the appropriateness of statues as a concept.

It's about "Hey if you fight a war against another country, they aren't going to put statues to you up in it" being a thing we shouldn't have to debate.
 
I didn't know that God condoned slavery. And if Jesus didn't, he never said so out loud, apparently:


That'll be an awful lot of statues ...
 
JoeMorgue said:
You can be a "good man" but if you fight a war against a country that country isn't going to put statues of you up in it.

That's why all the side discussion are red herrings. It's not just a matter of ranking these people on some good/bad scale, it's not just a matter of a deep philosophical debate about the appropriateness of statues as a concept.

It's about "Hey if you fight a war against another country, they aren't going to put statues to you up in it" being a thing we shouldn't have to debate.
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Including "Dixie", and yet, here we are. There have been more non-Confederate statues torn down than Confederate, and people are fleeing from "Dixie", and "Song of the South" is taboo, and Rhode Island has to change its name. That's a lot of red herrings.

It's almost as if the people demanding the changes aren't all that clear on what they really want, or why.
 
Meadmaker said:
Including "Dixie", and yet, here we are.
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No. Your alternative history "But Dixie has nothing to do with the Confederacy!" opinion need not be factored into this discussion because it's wrong. Remember wrong? That concept we used to have in discussions?

Again people don't have to present their personal philosophies to you to be graded for consistency to your satisfaction in order to make the world a better place.

Nobody is making Winn Dixie or the Dixie Chicks or Disney change anything. They are choosing to do so (or consider doing so) because they aren't psychopaths who puts a childish "You can't tell me what to do, you're not 100% morally consistent about everything you do!" tantrum above making the world a better place.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
No. Your alternative history "But Dixie has nothing to do with the Confederacy!" opinion need not be factored into this discussion because it's wrong. Remember wrong? That concept we used to have in discussions?

Again people don't have to present their personal philosophies to you to be graded for consistency to your satisfaction in order to make the world a better place.

Nobody is making Winn Dixie or the Dixie Chicks or Disney change anything. They are choosing to do so (or consider doing so) because they aren't psychopaths who puts a childish "You can't tell me what to do, you're not 100% morally consistent about everything you do!" tantrum above making the world a better place.
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The guy who wrote the song "Dixie" wrote it before Abe Lincoln was elected and....here's the thing.....he didn't make up the name for the territory. That was already in use. He called the song "Dixie" (Or was the actual title "I wish I was in Dixie"?) because the place that it referred to was already called "Dixie". Mason and Dixon drew their line even before there was a USA, much less a CSA.

Oh, but........I don't know exactly what the response will be, but there will be some reason that just because ......IT"S RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But if we're banning racist names, can we ban anything with "Alabama" in the name? Including Alabama. Just erase the whole damned state. Who would miss it?
 
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