Split Thread Tearing Down Statues Associated With Racial Injustice

[Disbelief]

The guy who wrote the song "Dixie" wrote it before Abe Lincoln was elected and....here's the thing.....he didn't make up the name for the territory. That was already in use. He called the song "Dixie" (Or was the actual title "I wish I was in Dixie"?) because the place that it referred to was already called "Dixie". Mason and Dixon drew their line even before there was a USA, much less a CSA.

Oh, but........I don't know exactly what the response will be, but there will be some reason that just because ......IT"S RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But if we're banning racist names, can we ban anything with "Alabama" in the name? Including Alabama. Just erase the whole damned state. Who would miss it?

Yet oddly enough, words can change meaning or connotation.

"Dixie" had originated in the minstrel shows of the 1850s and quickly became popular throughout the United States. During the American Civil War, it was adopted as a de facto national anthem of the Confederacy. New versions appeared at this time that more explicitly tied the song to the events of the Civil War.

 

[lobosrul5]

Rednecks are white racists. Would you agree with that statement?

I know you didn't ask me, but no. I've never considered the term redneck to necessarily mean someone who is white and racist. White, from the south, and working class is what it means to me.

Also, reading further upthread, yeah theres plenty of people in Texas, especially far east TX, who consider themselves part of "Dixie". Fly the flag, and have a novelty horn play it on their truck. I've seen it and heard it myself. The further west you go the less common it is. By the time you get to Lubbock its basically non-existent.

 

[Meadmaker]

Yet oddly enough, words can change meaning or connotation.

The song was written in 1859, in New York.

ETA: Which doesn't contradict anything you said, actually. I was just adding that bit. It was part of the minstrel shows.

But the place name, "Dixie" existed before the song, and wasn't invented in a minstrel show. Then and now, it was a term for "the south", but it had no official existence or borders. Oddly, people in Maryland don't consider themselves part of "Dixie", despite their border being the source of the name.

 

[Elagabalus]

The guy who wrote the song "Dixie" wrote it before Abe Lincoln was elected and....here's the thing.....he didn't make up the name for the territory. That was already in use. He called the song "Dixie" (Or was the actual title "I wish I was in Dixie"?) because the place that it referred to was already called "Dixie". Mason and Dixon drew their line even before there was a USA, much less a CSA.

Oh, but........I don't know exactly what the response will be, but there will be some reason that just because ......IT"S RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But if we're banning racist names, can we ban anything with "Alabama" in the name? Including Alabama. Just erase the whole damned state. Who would miss it?

No one (probably). Actually, you're the only one insisting that an entire State can be made to disappear just by changing its' name. Everyone else seems to be arguing that tearing down a statue will not result in making an historical person disappear.

Also, how many statues of Grant are there across the country? They all have to be left standing?

Also, my old history teacher in high school grew up in Florida. He said as a child every morning they would stand (for the Pledge of Allegiance) turn to the Confederate flag and sing "Dixie". Maybe he was full of it or maybe it was the school that he attended, but I believed him.

 

[Disbelief]

The song was written in 1859, in New York.

And? It was commandeered by the confederacy, so that is who it was linked to. I'll even Godwin the thread by pointing out that the swastika predates the Nazis by a year or two, but who comes to mind when you see one?

 

[William Parcher]

No. Your alternative history "But Dixie has nothing to do with the Confederacy!" opinion need not be factored into this discussion because it's wrong. Remember wrong? That concept we used to have in discussions?

Again people don't have to present their personal philosophies to you to be graded for consistency to your satisfaction in order to make the world a better place.

Nobody is making Winn Dixie or the Dixie Chicks or Disney change anything. They are choosing to do so (or consider doing so) because they aren't psychopaths who puts a childish "You can't tell me what to do, you're not 100% morally consistent about everything you do!" tantrum above making the world a better place.

Dixie Garr would like to have a few words with you, Joe. A conversation, if you will. Don't forget to tell her how easy it is for a person to legally change their name.


Hi, JoeMorgue. I'm Dixie Garr. How ya doin?

 

[Meadmaker]

And? It was commandeered by the confederacy, so that is who it was linked to. I'll even Godwin the thread by pointing out that the swastika predates the Nazis by a year or two, but who comes to mind when you see one?

That's actually a pretty good analogy, because I have heard idiots say that Hindus should remove swastikas from their religious artwork because the Nazis used their symbol. It's dumb, but people say it.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

If you go back far enough, all of our ancestors were African.

That's why I identify as an African-American.

 

[William Parcher]

White, from the south, and working class is what it means to me.

That means that a young white lesbian woman living in New Orleans and working as a file clerk at an accounting company who never votes Republican because in her words they are, "The Racist Party", is a REDNECK according to your own definition of what a redneck is.

I hand the microphone to you now.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

It's a regional reference, used long before the civil war.

"The South" is also a term mostly used for states that were in the Confederacy.


What should we start calling Dixieland jazz?

It's just silly. Is there an appropriate name for that place where they say "Y'all" a lot? (Texas excluded. Texas doesn't seem to be part of Dixie, despite being part of the CSA. I don't really think Florida is Dixie either, but maybe Floridians disagree.)

Sure, and the Confederate flag is just a symbol of southern pride.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Dixie Chicks have changed their name to The Chicks. The world has become much better and continues to become much right in front of our eyes. Blink and you will miss something.

"Chicks" is derogatory slang rooted in the patriarchy, male supremacy, and the assumption that biological sex is binary and not a continuum. What are they going to do now?

 

[William Parcher]

"Chicks" is derogatory slang rooted in the patriarchy, male supremacy, and the assumption that biological sex is binary and not a continuum. What are they going to do now?

Do you know how much money musical artists make after they retire? The cash flows to you like a gusher.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I know you didn't ask me, but no. I've never considered the term redneck to necessarily mean someone who is white and racist. White, from the south, and working class is what it means to me.

^This, more or less.

 

[lobosrul5]

That means that a young white lesbian woman living in New Orleans and working as a file clerk at an accounting company who never votes Republican because in her words they are, "The Racist Party", is a REDNECK according to your own definition of what a redneck is.

I hand the microphone to you now.

When I said working class, probably should've specified manual work. And yeah, I wouldn't preclude LGBT's from being Rednecks. My cousin in Tyler Texas is sure as hell a redneck, and she's married to a woman. Wouldn't really call her wife a redneck though.

 

[William Parcher]

I should have mentioned something else the Dixie Chicks could or should do. They can change the name of their band to "Woke", and then none of them ever set foot on a stage, none ever touch an instrument, and never sing, and then donate every cent of residuals and payments from their music to African-American charities. If they want to make any money then they have to go out and find a job amongst all the others who woke up long ago. People need to start taking their shame seriously.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Yet oddly enough, words can change meaning or connotation.

"Dixie" had originated in the minstrel shows of the 1850s and quickly became popular throughout the United States. During the American Civil War, it was adopted as a de facto national anthem of the Confederacy. New versions appeared at this time that more explicitly tied the song to the events of the Civil War.

However:

"I have always thought `Dixie’ one of the best tunes I have ever heard. Our adversaries over the way attempted to appropriate it, but I insisted yesterday that we fairly captured it. [Applause.] I presented the question to the Attorney General, and he gave it as his legal opinion that it is our lawful prize. [Laughter and applause.] I now request the band to favor me with its performance.”

--Abraham Lincoln


My preferred lyrics:

Away down South in the land of traitors,
Rattlesnakes and alligators,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.
Where cotton's king and men are chattels,
Union boys will win the battles,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.

Then we'll all go down to Dixie,
Away, away,
Each Dixie boy must understand,
That he must mind his Uncle Sam,
Away, away,
And we'll all go down to Dixie.
Away, away,
And we'll all go down to Dixie.

 

[William Parcher]

When I said working class, probably should've specified manual work. And yeah, I wouldn't preclude LGBT's from being Rednecks. My cousin in Tyler Texas is sure as hell a redneck, and she's married to a woman. Wouldn't really call her wife a redneck though.

You should have known that this was coming from Parcher right away...


That means that a young white lesbian woman living in New Orleans and working as a seamstress sewing clothes for poor black children in a hot and steamy little workshop (she lovingly calls it "the most wonderful sweatshop in the world"), who never votes Republican because in her words they are, "The Racist Party", is a REDNECK according to your own definition of what a redneck is.

Let us all call her REDNECK so that everyone knows what a redneck is.

 

[Thermal]

You should have known that this was coming from Parcher right away...


That means that a young white lesbian woman living in New Orleans and working as a seamstress sewing clothes for poor black children in a hot and steamy little workshop (she lovingly calls it "the most wonderful sweatshop in the world"), who never votes Republican because in her words they are, "The Racist Party", is a REDNECK according to your own definition of what a redneck is.

Let us all call her REDNECK so that everyone knows what a redneck is.

Need a better mental picture, here. How's the rack? And can we go with bi-curious?

 

[lobosrul5]

You should have known that this was coming from Parcher right away...


That means that a young white lesbian woman living in New Orleans and working as a seamstress sewing clothes for poor black children in a hot and steamy little workshop (she lovingly calls it "the most wonderful sweatshop in the world"), who never votes Republican because in her words they are, "The Racist Party", is a REDNECK according to your own definition of what a redneck is.

Let us all call her REDNECK so that everyone knows what a redneck is.

Well, she might be a redneck...

I wouldn't preclude democrats and LGBT people from being Rednecks since I know examples of each.

That said, I've always thought of NO as its own sort of... thing. Shreveport is full of Rednecks sure. But NO is cajun country.

 

[mumblethrax]

Grant was a very good man; read a recent biography or two. He had some spectacular failures as President, but he also had several positive achievements which he generally hasn't gotten enough credit for, such as cracking down on the Ku Klux Klan, and adopting a far more humane policy toward Native Americans than many of his predecessors. And even some of his failures were due to his having good ideas that were ahead of their time, such as civil service reform.

I mean, he did some good things. But he also wavered on Reconstruction, and I have difficulty believing that the corruption, incompetence and scandal that plagued his presidency had nothing to do with Grant, the man. There was also a nearly Trumpian sense of self-pity apparent in his second inaugural address:

"Notwithstanding this, throughout the war, and from my candidacy for my present office in 1868 to the close of the last Presidential campaign,I have been the subject of abuse and slander scarcely ever equaled in political history, which to-day I feel that I can afford to disregard in view of your verdict, which I gratefully accept as my vindication."

He says this eight years after Booth painted the walls with Lincoln's brains. But I guess he did say scarcely.