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Ed Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories....

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I am not on this site 24/7 and I post when I think it is an interesting topic with a lot "chatter". I really thought this site was for Skeptics... and I am a Skeptic. What this has turned into is a site for smart little quips that want to stir up rhetoric while putting somebody down that disagrees with either their opinion or other opinions. Instead of having a dialog it turns into an attack on character while guessing the intention of one's post.

Yes, I know what trolling means and to infer that on one person... you better know that person or their habits. It could be that your sense of smell is not very good.

If you have issues with me or my posts, I am open for discussion but I am not tolerant of blanket indictments especially when they are incorrect. You may wish to understand my qualifications prior to making a claim.

If everyone on this thread agreed with each other... then only one person is needed. To attack because it is opposite of you or others is the ultimate of conformity bias.

Their are some people on this site that abhor a counter opinion and I can't do anything about that other than exclude myself. As Groucho Marks said when asked why he didn't challenge the Riviera Country Club of no Jewish members... "why would I want to be a part of a group that doesn't want me there?"

I have already posted incorrectness in your post. Again your post seem to be in the interest of others responding
troll is a person who starts flame wars or upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community

Your most recent "viruses do not kill people" comes to mind.

ETA I don't have any problem with your differing opinions, it is how they are presented along with lack of evidence supporting you beliefs that I have an issue with.
 
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Exactly the same as idiots who don't get vaccinated and ignore public health advisories and orders. Traffic Laws are Health Laws, each one exists because of a body count. You can't rear-end someone if you maintain two-car-lengths distance, and pay attention to road conditions. Cars must have airbags and seatbelts, and all occupants must belt up - just as citizens are asked mask up now.

Even with airbags and seat belts people still die, nothing is 100% in the real world. Just FEWER people die in accidents, and that is the victory.
I can agree with most of your comment, what I disagree with is that when you own a car, it is an option and with that option you have certain criteria that comes with it and those are the ones you mentioned. I am good with that...

The difference is that a car is not a right. My ability to be outside without harming anybody is a right.
 
Your most recent "viruses do not kill people" comes to mind.

ETA I don't have any problem with your differing opinions, it is how they are presented along with lack of evidence supporting you beliefs that I have an issue with.
I expanded on causation of death on the death certificate... they are not mine they are the WHO outline. Visit this site.

https://www.who.int/classifications/icd/Guidelines_Cause_of_Death_COVID-19.pdf

This particular clip will show what Dr. Deborah Birx says regarding death and Covid-19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHp1GdOD4k

Thanks and enjoy the weekend.
 
I can agree with most of your comment, what I disagree with is that when you own a car, it is an option and with that option you have certain criteria that comes with it and those are the ones you mentioned. I am good with that...

The difference is that a car is not a right. My ability to be outside without harming anybody is a right.

You can't add one modifier to one side of your statement without adding it to the other.

"a car is not a right, in the same as you are not a right."
OR
"a car outside with out doing harm is a right, the same as you outside with out doing harm."
 
I expanded on causation of death on the death certificate... they are not mine they are the WHO outline. Visit this site.

https://www.who.int/classifications/icd/Guidelines_Cause_of_Death_COVID-19.pdf

This particular clip will show what Dr. Deborah Birx says regarding death and Covid-19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHp1GdOD4k
And she indicates that we (USA) regards the death as virus. Plain and simple. So you should have added the expansion in your first post not two pages later.
Thanks and enjoy the weekend.

I enjoy every day that I'm alive. Thanks you for your wishes.
 
You can't add one modifier to one side of your statement without adding it to the other.

"a car is not a right, in the same as you are not a right."
OR
"a car outside with out doing harm is a right, the same as you outside with out doing harm."
Your clarification is clear... and thanks.
 
No Other, how do you feel about laws that require you to wear clothing? That impresses me as a greater intrusion on liberty than mask requirements, because there isn't a rational underpinning.
 
No Other, how do you feel about laws that require you to wear clothing? That impresses me as a greater intrusion on liberty than mask requirements, because there isn't a rational underpinning.
Great question. I feel that clothes should be made optional. The reason why I am not as intensified about this as the face mask is that I have inculcated the wearing of clothes since I can remember, the face mask element bugs me because the reasoning is not sound. I put a lot of trust in a healthy body and I have spent a lifetime taking care of myself. As soon as I found out about the Covid-19 I doubled down on my diet to make sure it was not acidic. If authorities were more open and provided quantifiable data via research and the pieces fit... I would change my attitude.

As a side note: I am not a homeopathic, vegan, or some other extremist regarding healing and diet.
 
I do not wish to put words in your mouth so I am asking... "are you suggesting that unless we KNOW the person is Covid-19 free that we wear mask?"

Mmm. For cloth masks to work effectively, that's not too far from what's recommended. To be clear, though, in what you wrote, you were stressing the concept of "If you're sick, stay home!" That's not controversial from a public health standpoint, even if the Trump Administration (pushed by corporate interests and re-election desires) has taken action to fight against that. Seriously consider the situation, though. People infected with COVID-19 are frequently contagious while having no actionable symptoms to justify staying home. While COVID-19 can be said to be under control in some parts of the world, it's not even remotely under control in the US and has spread pretty much everywhere in the US. Recommended or mandatory cloth mask, depending on the place and situation, combined with general social distancing, are something of a compromise to try to allow life to be as close to normal as possible and to stay that way until the situation changes for the better. To poke at the perspective in play, again, it's not so much about individuals as it's about the community dealing with a natural disaster. Dealing with natural disasters is rarely going to be a pleasant experience for anyone involved, but as long as the community works together, the losses can usually be mitigated.



I will modify my statement. Everyone that I know who went to get a test... was able to do so.

If we're talking personal stories, my mother, who works in a hospital, was unable to get tested when she likely got sick with COVID-19, though she was also able to work from home during that period. It has been a number of weeks since then, though, and testing capacity has increased since. A friend of mine works at a company that offered tests for the people who wanted to get tested, then decided not to let my friend actually get tested when he tried to take advantage of the offer.

If the people you know went relatively recently, then yeah, it's sorta to be expected that they could get a test, now that testing capacity has expanded greatly and the base load is actually being handled with some room to spare. Testing is not being done to capacity currently, as it is, though, likely for a variety of reasons that don't need to be poked at for the moment. The positives are rising in far too many places in the US, though, which likely also means that there will be notably increasing demand again. Hopefully, testing capacity will at least stay ahead of baseline demand from now on, though that's hardly a certainty.
 
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There are two things that a virus can do within a person.

1. Multiply
2. Kill a cell if it's exit is via lysis.

How your body reacts to this unwanted virus is determined by each person's immune system. People who have compromised immune systems will fare worse than healthy immune systems.
A compromised immune system does not cause death. Having all your cells ruptured does. A healthy immune system won't necessarily protect you against it.

But hey, my father didn't die of Alzheimer's disease rotting his brain, he just forgot to eat and starved to death. And my mother didn't die of skin cancer, her brain just couldn't handle being full of cancerous growths so she forgot to breathe! The reality is, the progression of those diseases would have killed both of them eventually no matter what was done to keep them alive.

This is why the median age of Covid-19 related fatalities in the USA is 75 years of age. Yet, these draconian measures have only adverse affects on all the population.
The only adverse effect it had on me was fear of catching the virus (I am getting close to that median age). Apart from that it was bliss. The neighborhood was much more peaceful and people kinder than usual. I didn't mind waiting in line at the supermarket. It did not affect my income, and I saved money by not buying junk I didn't need!

So overall I class the lockdown as a net positive. I am more worried now that we have opened up and people are going back to 'normal'. I hate to think what it would be like now if we hadn't done anything.
 
Since you brought up "flattening" of the curve... flattening of a curve extends the problem. Many thought we should be out of it by now but that became mathematically impossible due to flattening. You gain in one area at the expense of another.
Depends on how 'flat' you make it. A fully flat curve means no new cases. If it is done early enough that means fewer cases in total, which reduces the problem.

We currently have a total of 2.26 million cases and 121 thousand deaths in the US, and the curve still isn't flat. If we had flattened it in March those numbers would be way lower and the virus would be practically gone. The saving in lives and medical expenses alone would be enormous, easily making up for 'draconian' lockdowns. Because we didn't lock down properly it will carry on much longer and we will pay a lot more.

So what you are talking about is not a true flattening, but flattening just enough to avoid catastrophe. Like most half measures, this doesn't give the best results. Nevertheless it may still be better than no action. Sure it extends the time period, but if the infection rate can be managed it's still better than doing nothing and risking complete economic and social collapse.

Lessons from the Spanish Flu pandemic
Non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) such as social distancing can have positive effects on the economy, through limiting spikes in infections and avoiding mass casualties.

A study of the economic impact of the 1918 Spanish Flu in the US has found those cities that implemented early and extensive NPIs suffered no adverse economic effects over the medium term.

Cities that intervened earlier and more aggressively actually experienced a relative increase in real economic activity after the pandemic subsided.
 
Great question. I feel that clothes should be made optional.
That's fine. Just stay at home and you can wear as little clothing as you like.

the face mask element bugs me because the reasoning is not sound.
The face mask is to protect us from you. If you tell me "It's OK I don't have the virus" I won't believe you.

I put a lot of trust in a healthy body and I have spent a lifetime taking care of myself. As soon as I found out about the Covid-19 I doubled down on my diet to make sure it was not acidic.
The virus doesn't care what you eat. Unless you snort your food through the nose it won't help (and probably not even then).

If authorities were more open and provided quantifiable data via research and the pieces fit... I would change my attitude.
If you had all the data it wouldn't help, because you don't know how to analyze it properly.

As a side note: I am not a homeopathic, vegan, or some other extremist regarding healing and diet.
But you have the same attitude.
 
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alkaline_diet

Some people believe in implausible things.
I appreciate opposing opinions and I especially appreciate when links are provided... than you.

I did take time out to visit the link and randomly explored some footnoted annotations provided next to various claims.

One of the footnotes [5] under the heading of blood regarding the levels of PH in the blood stream was very interesting. It took me to the "Argonne National Laboratory" based in Lemont, IL. It is a good institution dealing with material science. I looked through the site downloaded some articles and continued to seek out any reference to PH in the blood... there was none. That makes perfect sense as this laboratory primary focus is nuclear based studies. They do deal with cancer studies and what I read, it is very encouraging as to what they are advancing.

First, I do not promote a PH "diet" and this is what the article that you linked was discussing... I completely understand the excess of PH or for that matter anything in the blood stream. Your reference did not address what I stated.

Second, Rational Wiki is a biased publication. It is left-wing (not that is anything wrong with left-wing) it is politically motivated and produces propaganda to influence opinion. All in all I have no issue with what I just wrote, what you failed to do was acknowledge that your reference had a political bias and not just a source of unbiased information with correct footnotes.

Third, you may wish to experience the joy of reading what you post as a reference and not just "google" something and then copy and paste what fits your needs.

Fourth, it is without question or debate that diseases flourish in an acidic environment. Not one time did I go off and preach a PH diet.To reference an article that deals in extremes is disingenuous.

Fifth, I maintain that the body can defeat the majority of illnesses if that body is properly nourished, exercised (both body and mind), hydrated, and all done in moderation versus excess. This would include restrictions that put an unnatural stress on our systems (ie. face mask).

Final note... ignore what I write as we are probably polar opposites.
 
The traffic signal goes out at 5pm at the busiest intersection in a large metropolis. While the signal was inoperable there were 3 accidents.
Yes.

The broken traffic signal caused a condition for the accidents; yet the traffic signal did not hit any car.
The accidents would not, in all probability, have happened without the light failure; it is the cause.

Yes, I am very familiar with this area of science and classification.
Right...
:rolleyes:

First, if a person is wearing an N95 it is a Respirator and not a face mask
It's a filter mask.

... if a person needs to wear a mask due to an illness... stay home and don't put others at risk.
Sigh. That's not always possible, especially in countries, like the United States, that lack proper social and health support infrastructure and services.

Third, does the face mask completely stop the virus?
No, of course not.

Fourth, there are plenty of test sites available for everyone to be tested, if they want to be tested.
Not in the USA, not nationally.

Fifth, quarantine is restricting the movement of sick individuals, what do you call it when you restrict the movement of healthy people?
Quarantine. :rolleyes:

Final... How many people on this thread have been tested? If you tested negative, do you still wear a face mask? If yes... then why do you still wear it?
1. Yes.
2. Occasionally.
3. Many factors.
 
Depends on how 'flat' you make it. A fully flat curve means no new cases. If it is done early enough that means fewer cases in total, which reduces the problem.

We currently have a total of 2.26 million cases and 121 thousand deaths in the US, and the curve still isn't flat. If we had flattened it in March those numbers would be way lower and the virus would be practically gone. The saving in lives and medical expenses alone would be enormous, easily making up for 'draconian' lockdowns. Because we didn't lock down properly it will carry on much longer and we will pay a lot more.
Thanks for the link... it is very informative! I really don't have any issue in your summation, the problem with any blog, letter, text.. et al is that you can't get the entirety of thoughts in a monologue versus a conversation. One of my gripes is what you just stated... this was started too late. What we are going through now are more motions than effectiveness, the people in charge (if there really is anyone) closed the barn doors after everything left the barn. Flattening is good if we accept that it will last a bit longer but when we flatten we are not reducing the number of deaths, we are reducing the rate of the rise on the Y axis.

So what you are talking about is not a true flattening, but flattening just enough to avoid catastrophe. Like most half measures, this doesn't give the best results. Nevertheless it may still be better than no action. Sure it extends the time period, but if the infection rate can be managed it's still better than doing nothing and risking complete economic and social collapse.
Again, I agree because this is where are at and it is currently our best option. Bringing face mask back into it as that is what I am most against is that the face mask does not bring that much safety to the masses. What it mostly does is separate people. I was at a store and someone came up to me and admonished me for NOT wearing one. What was funny is that this person had to pull down his mask in order to get his point across because he started hyperventilating. After he calmed down I asked him why he was wearing his face mask and he sheepishly said "because my daughter makes me" (his daughter is 8).

Lessons from the Spanish Flu pandemic[/QUOTE] I do like the link, it has value as it does mention that economies did get hurt with quarantining but the areas that incorporated measures earlier experienced better economies when the pandemic ended. Unfortunately our economy will never be the same due to poor leadership especially out of the CDC, NIH, and the sorry institution called WHO. Our entire political system politicized a disease and that is shameful and the blame lies clearly on the Republicans and the Democrats, they have pitted citizen against citizen while the elderly were unnecessarily dying.

Thanks one more time for the link!
 
It's a filter mask.
It is a respirator. A respirator is fitted for 100% coverage. A face mask is not. Your calling it a filter mask reveals how very little knowledge you have of Respirators.


Sigh. That's not always possible, especially in countries, like the United States, that lack proper social and health support infrastructure and services.
Staying at home when you are sick has nothing to do with proper social and health infrastructure. People stay at home all the time when ill.[/quote]
 
Mmm. For cloth masks to work effectively, that's not too far from what's recommended. To be clear, though, in what you wrote, you were stressing the concept of "If you're sick, stay home!" That's not controversial from a public health standpoint, even if the Trump Administration (pushed by corporate interests and re-election desires) has taken action to fight against that. Seriously consider the situation, though. People infected with COVID-19 are frequently contagious while having no actionable symptoms to justify staying home. While COVID-19 can be said to be under control in some parts of the world, it's not even remotely under control in the US and has spread pretty much everywhere in the US. Recommended or mandatory cloth mask, depending on the place and situation, combined with general social distancing, are something of a compromise to try to allow life to be as close to normal as possible and to stay that way until the situation changes for the better. To poke at the perspective in play, again, it's not so much about individuals as it's about the community dealing with a natural disaster. Dealing with natural disasters is rarely going to be a pleasant experience for anyone involved, but as long as the community works together, the losses can usually be mitigated.I
The below link to a YouTube video highlights the misinformation and confusion that I have. For full disclosure, this video was challenged by others within WHO saying she meant something else. This is pause for concern as we have Maria van Kerkove,she is the TECHNICAL Lead for Covid-19 at WHO. Her credentials are impressive as she sports degrees from Cornell, Standford, and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Her organization (WHO) came out after her comments and backtracked saying that she meant to say something else... view the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQTBlbx1Xjs

Did she say something that was incorrect or did she say something that she "should not have said"?
 
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