Jogging in Georgia while black.

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bluesjnr said:
The daughter hasn't been accused of racism so why is her statement not taken at face value?
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Also having black boyfriends wouldn't actually mean they are not racist. Just like many racists do have actual black friends. They are just "one of the good ones".

Hell no one says Lovecraft was not antisemitic because he married a jewish woman.
 
Thermal said:
dejudge said:
The numerous videos where it is shown that Arbery was known to Police and Court means that it is likely that Greg McMichael knew of Arbery before 23 Feb.20.

Greg McMichael was an active Police officer during the time Arbery was arrested and stopped by Police in 2017

Greg and Travis may have planned to personally deal with Arbery after he was seen on the surveillance video on 11 Feb.20.
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Its certainly a possibility. Still vigalanism, and still a serious crime. Unlike trespassing.
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If McMichael knew who Arbery was from his days in law enforcement then this becomes even more disturbing.

I hope he didn't.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Can you quote where I have done so?
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Yes.

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
The only evidence that the daughter has had any black boyfriends is that she's said so. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that "some of my best friends are black" is a common defence against accusations of racism.
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Pretty much straight out makes the case, unsceptically, that she's a racist.

On the one hand you won't accept her claim that she has had "black boyfriends" at face value claiming lack of evidence - sceptic.

On the other you apply the argumentum ad populum that is "some of my best friends are black" to her and find her wanting. - not sceptic.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Skeptic Tank said:
The idea that an investigator in a DA's office would go out there with his face in the wide open for all to see, in a KKK rally and that this same guy had a daughter with multiple boyfriends of color, was a stupid notion.
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The only evidence that the daughter has had any black boyfriends is that she's said so. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that "some of my best friends are black" is a common defence against accusations of racism. I'm sure I don't have to tell you because you've used it yourself in this very thread.

But how fanciful the notion is, is a question of how intelligent you think the McMichaels are. Evidence points towards "not very".
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Something else. For ST to write what he did in that post leads me to believe he has little experience around daughters. His own or anyone else's.

More than a few daughters with fathers who went to KKK rallies (DA investigator or not) would not only not be reluctant to date blacks, they might be very likely to make a point of it. Maybe even a very public one.

Daughters can be like that.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Also having black boyfriends wouldn't actually mean they are not racist. Just like many racists do have actual black friends. They are just "one of the good ones".

Hell no one says Lovecraft was not antisemitic because he married a jewish woman.
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Also having black boyfriends might actually mean they are not racist. Just like many people who are not racist have actual black friends. They are just part of the human race.

Hell no-one should attempt to inculcate some long, long dead writers bigotry and race-inflected narratives onto a minor side player in this saga.
 
quadraginta said:
Something else. For ST to write what he did in that post leads me to believe he has little experience around daughters. His own or anyone else's.

More than a few daughters with fathers who went to KKK rallies (DA investigator or not) would not only not be reluctant to date blacks, they might be very likely to make a point of it. Maybe even a very public one.

Daughters can be like that.
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I'm quite aware of that trope and I was 10000% certain someone would mention it in reply to my post.

It's something which gets promoted a lot in media because a strong conflict between parent and child makes for good drama, and conflicts where a mean old racist is being put in his place / told off and his child has "broken free of that mindset" are particularly appealing for obvious reasons.

Sure, it happens sometimes but it is still the case that if someone comes from the kind of family where the dad is a klansman, it is significantly less likely that they'd be dating outside their race.

It is still much more normal for people to have beliefs and behaviors consistent with those of their family.
 
bluesjnr said:
Also having black boyfriends might actually mean they are not racist. Just like many people who are not racist have actual black friends. They are just part of the human race.

Hell no-one should attempt to inculcate some long, long dead writers bigotry and race-inflected narratives onto a minor side player in this saga.
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Oh wait I forgot things are only racist when they are at the level of "I'm going to kill me some #######" before going and killing them. The kind of everyday racial bias that means that white convicted felons have an easier time getting call backs for job interviews than blacks with clean records is, of course, not true racism.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I'm quite aware of that trope and I was 10000% certain someone would mention it in reply to my post.
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Tropes are often based in fact.

<snip>

Sure, it happens sometimes but it is still the case that if someone comes from the kind of family where the dad is a klansman, it is significantly less likely that they'd be dating outside their race.
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Or that they'd be less likely to let their parents know about it.

It is still much more normal for people to have beliefs and behaviors consistent with those of their family.
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Do you have any kids at all? If you do, you certainly didn't learn much from them.

Of course, that wouldn't surprise me much, either. You don't impress me as the type who would learn from anything they didn't like.
 
quadraginta said:
Do you have any kids at all? If you do, you certainly didn't learn much from them.

Of course, that wouldn't surprise me much, either. You don't impress me as the type who would learn from anything they didn't like.
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Yes, I do have kids.

I still stand by my statement that the more normal way for things to play out is for children to end up with similar worldviews and beliefs to their parents.

Now, there has been a great deal of effort put into breaking the bonds between generations and indoctrinating younger people in the west to be hateful toward their race, their parents, their ancestors, their society, their traditions, etc. - particularly in the last 100 years or so, and this has met with a great deal of success - but even so, I think it is more normal for people to resemble their parents ideologically than not.

If this weren't the case, you probably wouldn't see leftists spending so much time lamenting how racists indoctrinate their children and perpetuate racism across the generations. You probably also wouldn't see so much talk about how people tend to inherit the political party of their parents, etc.

Ironically I myself am an example of someone ending up with beliefs 180 degrees from my parents, but that came quite late in my life and there wasn't a whiff of rebelliousness about it. I was a very non-rebellious kid for the most part.

My parents were anti-racist lefties to a profound degree, and so was I until well into adulthood. You say I don't strike you as the kind of person to learn from things I don't like? I assure you, when I started to have my ideological shift, I did not like the things I was coming to accept one bit.

It has actually been a profoundly unpleasant worldview to adopt. It is not a source of encouragement or hope, and I have wished sometimes I could return to ignorance.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
......
My parents were anti-racist lefties to a profound degree, and so was I until well into adulthood. You say I don't strike you as the kind of person to learn from things I don't like? I assure you, when I started to have my ideological shift, I did not like the things I was coming to accept one bit.

It has actually been a profoundly unpleasant worldview to adopt. It is not a source of encouragement or hope, and I have wished sometimes I could return to ignorance.
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This could be in interesting psychological study. What made you a hater?
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's likely not him compare the ears: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...45&q=travis+mcmichael&hl=en-US&source=sh/x/im
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TheL8Elvis said:
sadly I agree. It was fun while it lasted though

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_500445ec54dc1b9a8f.jpg[/qimg]
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While I agree that it is not enough to be sure its the same person, you're comparing the left ear of the man in the KKK photo with McMichael's right ear (a mirror-imaged photo). People's left and right ears are usually different.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
That gets too off topic but the short answer is: reality
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Ahhh, but earlier you said in your youth you hated the South and Southerners. I think hate is in your makeup. You just switched targets.

If you must hate, try hating bad people instead of some sort of demographic. If everything you posted is true, you can still keep Arbery on the hate list.
 
IsThisTheLife said:
Look people, it's real simple - it's become abundantly clear that Arbery's character was going to land him in a bad place sooner or later. That character was what got him shot dead. If you want to believe, with nothing to support that belief, that McMichael wanted to shoot him, malice-aforethought, and was happy do have done so, you're ****** in the head.
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quadraginta said:
The fact is that McMichael grabbed his gun and rushed out of the house with the express purpose of chasing down Arbery and stopping him. He may not have wanted to kill Arbery. I don't think there is any way we could ever know that for certain, short of a statement from him. And I doubt that will be forthcoming.

But there is no arguing with the fact that he made a point of preparing himself to do so. And when the circumstances arose ... without any apparent hesitation ... he did.

You seem to be able to slip a matchbook cover between the two things and treat them as separate. I can't.
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It's more simple even than that. The McMichaels were attempting and preparing to illegally detain Arbery through the use of force. THAT is a felony; and shows unassailable malice aforethought. Any unlawful killing that occurs during the commission of that crime is automatically murder per US (and Georgia) law.
 
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Meadmaker said:
Ahhh, but earlier you said in your youth you hated the South and Southerners. I think hate is in your makeup. You just switched targets.

If you must hate, try hating bad people instead of some sort of demographic. If everything you posted is true, you can still keep Arbery on the hate list.
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If he did that he'd have to hate himself.

This is why it is so rare for racists to reform.
 
Shadowdweller said:
It's more simple even than that. The McMichaels were attempting and preparing to illegally detain Arbery through the use of force. THAT is a felony; and shows unassailable malice aforethought. Any unlawful killing that occurs during the commission of that crime is automatically murder per US (and Georgia) law.
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You misunderstood what I was responding to. ITTL was saying there was "nothing to support that belief, that McMichael wanted to shoot him".

My point was that it didn't make much difference if he did or not, his actions were the same and led to the same result.

That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that his actions were illegal. They would have been illegal either way. Mens rea is not a necessary element for felony murder.
 
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