The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[Stacyhs]

I understand carlitos.

Should you ever come to see what those happy voluntarily rallying throngs see, you might consider rallying yourself.

If I ever come to see what those happy voluntarily rallying throngs see, I've left instructions to be committed to a mental hospital as I will have lost my mind.

 

[Bubba]

Maybe it was a medical gal or guy who posted thee 22 HCQ+zinc studies. They agree it works. They appear to be legit.


I figure y'all could help with assessing the value of these reports.

I searched 2 of the many names, BR Erickson & Pierre Rollin. They came up good on many other cdc reports.

The reports come from several nations. Some include links to their published reports.

Summary opinion:

Opinion
Historical controls are used in many previous studies in medicine. In this respect, the safety of Hydroxychloroquine is well documented. When the safe use of this drug is projected against its apparent effect of decreasing the progression of early cases to ventilator use, it is difficult to understand the reluctance of the authorities in charge of U.S. pandemic management to recommend its use in early COVID-19 cases. The effects of the chloroquines were first outlined 15 years ago by the CDC’s own Special Pathogens Unit.

LINK to the 22 reports:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/preview

 

[bruto]

I already thought he was. No doubt he's going to say it has kept him from getting infected and start a whole new run on the drug.

This man needs to have a heart problem from the drug or get the infection to save us all.

Why not both? We should be so lucky.

 

[Stacyhs]

The happy voluntarily rallying throngs to Hitler provide a cautionary tale of the kind of sad end cultists can come to. Ever look at pictures or films of the faces in the throngs of citizens when in the presence of their Leader during his rallies and appearances in the good times? For those still alive by '44/45, a very different expression was to be found.

Come on now. Trump isn't as bad as Hitler. He hasn't implemented a eugenics program where mentally or physically defective children are killed like Hitler did. He may not be very proud of Eric and Donnie Jr. but he doesn't want them dead.


As far as we know.

 

[Craig4]

I understand carlitos.

Should you ever come to see what those happy voluntarily rallying throngs see, you might consider rallying yourself.

All I see in those crowds is stupidity, disloyalty, treason and racism. I see a group of people who volunteered to be second class citizens, something less than American, unworthy of our nation.

 

[Craig4]

Today is one time I wish Trump is telling the truth. Chloroquine is a nasty drug which can have some serious side effects on the heart. Considering Trump's carcass is teaming with cardiovascular risk factors, this could be great news for the country. Of course, he might just be pushing the drug because of some financial interest and he's not really taking it.

 

[Resume]

Nope

Drugs developed to treat malaria have been touted by President Trump as treatment for Covid-19, despite scientists saying there's no definitive evidence they work.

Studies are underway to examine the efficacy of chloroquine and its derivatives, but the World Health Organization says it's concerned by reports of individuals self-medicating and causing themselves serious harm.

And nope.

“Preliminary findings suggest that the higher CQ dosage (10-day regimen) should not be recommended for COVID-19 treatment because of its potential safety hazards. Such results forced us to prematurely halt patient recruitment to this arm,” the authors wrote. “Given the enormous global push for the use of CQ for COVID-19, results such as the ones found in this trial can provide robust evidence for updated COVID-19 patient management recommendations.”

And more nope

A preliminary study based on clinical data from researchers in several countries found “no evidence” that hydroxychloroquine is a useful coronavirus-fighting weapon. Additional research funded by the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia has recently posted similar findings. So much for Trump’s “game changer.” As one critic in The Washington Post put it, the president “could have let the science lead and his own rhetoric follow.”

 

[p0lka]

Edit: the headline is
Coronavirus: Trump taking unproven drug hydroxychloroquine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52717161
He happens to be taking it...

also, interesting how he angles his arms for the camera, seems to make his hands bigger than they are.

 

[Stacyhs]

Maybe it was a medical gal or guy who posted thee 22 HCQ+zinc studies. They agree it works. They appear to be legit.


I figure y'all could help with assessing the value of these reports.

I searched 2 of the many names, BR Erickson & Pierre Rollin. They came up good on many other cdc reports.

The reports come from several nations. Some include links to their published reports.

Summary opinion:





LINK to the 22 reports:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/preview

You didn't read that link very well, if at all, did you? Or if you did, you didn't bother to look at more info about the cherry-picked sections you presented. If so, you wouldn't have posted it. They are all from February with the latest being March 20...when there was little known about the disease and how hydroxy-/cholorquine might affect it. We know a lot more now: it's ineffective.

Two reports were of results in vitro or monkeys. Not in humans. The use of the drug in Korea was from February and was a hail Mary to be used only on the most vulnerable who were at highest risk of dying: the old and those with serious underlying health conditions. NOT on younger, healthier and at less risk of death. Mt. Sinai does NOT recommend the use of hyroxychloroquine for Covid 19 AT ALL. Your info is old. China has since reversed its policy on using the drug since further study found no health benefits from it. The French trial was only 6 patients and has since been heavily criticized for its lack of proper procedures including a control group.

This collection with its cherry-picked sections you presented is out of date and medically rejected information. I'd like to know where you got it since you didn't cite the source. For some strange reason, I bet it's a pro-Trump site trying hard to make Trump not look like an idiot. Fool's errand.

BIG FAIL.

 

[portlandatheist]

So this happened in Oregon today:
Oregon governor’s coronavirus restrictions on religious gatherings, other emergency orders ‘null and void,’ judge rules

A Baker County judge on Monday ruled that Gov. Kate Brown’s restrictions on religious gatherings as well as her other “Stay Home Save Lives” coronavirus orders are "null and void'' because they exceed a 28-day limit.

Even though this is about religious gatherings, it pretty much nullifies all restrictions based on the notion that an emergency order was only good for 28 days. I have no idea where this will go.

 

[Bob001]

Maybe it was a medical gal or guy who posted thee 22 HCQ+zinc studies. They agree it works. They appear to be legit.
....

Well, there's this:

(CNN)Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers.

The study, which reviewed veterans' medical charts, was posted Tuesday on medrxiv.org, a pre-print server, meaning it was not peer reviewed or published in a medical journal. The research was funded by the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia.

In the study of 368 patients, 97 patients who took hydroxychloroquine had a 27.8% death rate. The 158 patients who did not take the drug had an 11.4% death rate.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html

 

[alfaniner]

Edit: the headline is
Coronavirus: Trump taking unproven drug hydroxychloroquine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52717161
He happens to be taking it...

also, interesting how he angles his arms for the camera, seems to make his hands bigger than they are.

Maybe that's why he also does that goose-wing-flapping thing. It's the only way he can get his hands closer to the camera's point of view for a better zoom effect.

 

[zorro99]

Well, there's this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html

Trump said that the people who did this study are not “Trump fans.”

 

[Stacyhs]

I just saw a video of an anti-lockdown demonstration. A protester, wearing a TRUMP t-shirt, confronted a reporter wearing a mask:

“I think you need to back away from me, man,” the reporter can be heard saying in one of the clips.
“No, I got hydroxychloroquine, I’m fine,” the unnamed protester says as he continues to walk toward the reporter and gives him the finger.

Uh huh. Right.

 

[Stacyhs]

So this happened in Oregon today:
Oregon governor’s coronavirus restrictions on religious gatherings, other emergency orders ‘null and void,’ judge rules


Even though this is about religious gatherings, it pretty much nullifies all restrictions based on the notion that an emergency order was only good for 28 days. I have no idea where this will go.

I live in Portland. I'll still stay home as much as possible, social distance, and wear a mask in public.

 

[eerok]

This collection with its cherry-picked sections you presented is out of date and medically rejected information. I'd like to know where you got it since you didn't cite the source. For some strange reason, I bet it's a pro-Trump site trying hard to make Trump not look like an idiot. Fool's errand.

BIG FAIL.

He keeps posting that doc. I've pointed out to him already that it's cherry-picked crap. He doesn't care.

 

[Stacyhs]

Maybe it was a medical gal or guy who posted thee 22 HCQ+zinc studies. They agree it works. They appear to be legit.

And maybe.... it's a Trump supporter trying to boost his ridiculous hydrochloroquine claims so he doesn't look like such a fool.

I figure y'all could help with assessing the value of these reports.

I searched 2 of the many names, BR Erickson & Pierre Rollin. They came up good on many other cdc reports.

The reports come from several nations. Some include links to their published reports. And still haven't provided a source.

Summary opinion:

Two reports were of results in vitro or monkeys. Not in humans. The use of the drug in Korea was from February and was a hail Mary to be used only on the most vulnerable who were at highest risk of dying: the old and those with serious underlying health conditions. NOT on younger, healthier and at less risk of death. Mt. Sinai does NOT recommend the use of hyroxychloroquine for Covid 19 AT ALL. Your info is old. China has since reversed its policy on using the drug since further study found no health benefits from it. The French trial was only 6 patients and has since been heavily criticized for its lack of proper procedures including a control group.

This collection with its cherry-picked sections you presented is out of date and medically rejected information. I'd like to know where you got it since you didn't cite the source.

LINK to the 22 reports:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/preview

This is the same report you linked to last time.

 

[phiwum]

This is what I don't understand. It sounds like what my ex-Boss used to call 'overthinking.' How can the number of discovered cases be misleading?

If a state reported 1,281 news cases on a day in mid-April, 1,617 on a day in late April and 2,205 new cases on a day in early May, new cases are obviously on the rise. What is misleading about that? People who think they caught coronavius would have been more likely to get tested in early May as compared to mid-April? It's possible but the percent of positives only declined from 11% to 7% while the number of tests more than tripled and new cases almost doubled.

It's an epidemic, all the public health officials were warning more people were going to get sick. If the number of new cases in Arizona increase 80% in early May over what they were finding in mid-April, how is that misleading? Seriously, at a time when real people are getting sick, real people are dying everyday, why are we debating this? .

Below is a chart from Worldometer (link) showing active cases per day. Maybe this is better --it only shows active case -- but it goes steadily upward. There are more active cases today than there were yesterday. What is 'misleading' about that?

The question is how many people have contracted COVID-19. The rate of confirmed cases is certainly increasing. Is the rate of new infections also increasing?

The answer is not obvious to me. When the number of tests go up, we expect the number of confirmed cases to increase. Let's suppose we test only twice, for instance, and let's suppose that the two samples are representative of the population as a whole. If the second sample is twice as large as the first, then the second sample would result in double the cases of the first, assuming no change in the percentage of people infected.

Under these assumptions, the fact that the percentage of positive cases decreases would be excellent evidence that the infection rate is decreasing.

Unfortunately, these assumptions are not evidently true in the current situation. When testing was more limited, tests were given only to those with high likelihood of being sick. As tests became more available, the sample changed to include those less likely to be sick. This would decrease the percentage of positive cases, even if infection rates held steady.

Hence, neither the rate of new cases nor the percentage of positive tests is easy to interpret.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Well, there's this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html

From your link: "This research also has not yet been peer-reviewed or published in a medical journal."

CNN doesn't want you to take HCQ, without any proven scientific evidence.
This is an apple?

HCQ is an older proven drug that treats many different disorders that cause inflammation in the body.........Covid-19 causes inflammation of lung tissue to the point the patient has to be put on a respirator to breathe.......That's what kills you, no air can get in.

I'll have the banana.


Chris B.

 

[Babbylonian]

So this happened in Oregon today:
Oregon governor’s coronavirus restrictions on religious gatherings, other emergency orders ‘null and void,’ judge rules


Even though this is about religious gatherings, it pretty much nullifies all restrictions based on the notion that an emergency order was only good for 28 days. I have no idea where this will go.

He [the judge] found that the churches can take necessary social distancing precautions, just as grocery stores and other essential businesses have done.

Yeah, except that workers at essential businesses are getting infected and dying, even with "precautions." That's why we should salute those still getting food distributed, because they are literally risking their lives to do so.

It's no surprise that this would come out of a Baker County court. That's Trump country and its total population is smaller than that of a tiny Portland suburb.