Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Thermal]

How fast does he run, and what is the velocity of buckshot?

He already tried to run once, and they caught up with him once. How many times do you think an armed posse is going to let you run away? How much stamina do you have left to win a foot chase against yahoos in trucks?

Yeah, they pulled up along side him once and he jogged away. Apparently it's pretty easy to trot away from a truck full of fat guys. If they were sniping at this point, different story. But they weren't. And as mentioned earlier, the cars are pretty much restricted to the pavement. One hop across a yard and what were hillbilly boys going to do? Drive through their neighbors fences and decks?

Yes, in that situation, closing the distance on the shotgun guy is a smart thing to do. If you can get inside his ability to point it at you, it's a smart choice.

*glances at Arbery's corpse*

...also, if you get in close, his friends are unlikely to fire so they don't shoot their buddy. I think his problem is that he didn't fully commit to the plan. Or his plan was not the best one for the circumstance. Was his plan to disarm, which would have been a mistake, or engage in close combat and disable the shooter? We will never know, but while his execution of his plan will never be known, it's not a bad idea per se.

I doubt he had much of a plan. Not much time to put one together. At a choice between trotting off the road and through someone's yard, versus staying in the open street and rushing the nut with a shotgun...yeah, I'm gonna be doing some high speed trespassing. You can advocate all the 'Im bulletlroof' swagger you like. Its the worst possible choice. As evidence, I present exhibit A: Arbery's pellet riddled body.

To other posters: should you (god forbid) find yourself in a similar situation and think that your impressive skills and chutzpah will allow you to disarm a psycho killer, please reflect on Ahmaud Arbery, and get the **** out of there.

 

[johnny karate]

This is a wonderful illustration of the wooish/CT mind at work. Racism is basically a type of woo belief. Utterly irrational. Totally unsustainable in the light of any critical thinking at all, and yet the belief is maintained.

The conspiracy theorist bends and warps every piece of encountered evidence into something that fits the conspiracy theory. So, we have a case where a man is being threatened with deadly force, and instead of interpreting his actions as a desperate attempt to take whatever action he can to save his life, it becomes part of a master plan.

Travis threatens Arbery as Arbery is running down the left side of the road. Arbery goes to the right. Most people might view this as trying to get away from the man with the gun, but in Skeptic Tank's mind, it becomes an aggressive act. It's part of his plan to run around the truck, circle it, and attack Travis. Travis facilitates the plan by actual moving toward Arbery, beginning to circle the truck in the opposite direction, falling into Arbery's trap, making it easier to attack Travis. Seizing the opportunity, the vicious negro launches his plan to execute the white man by seizing his shotgun, but the white man is too quick for him, maintaining control of the weapon and successfully ending the life of the rampaging savage.

It's utterly daft, but we're used to that from the woos, the CTists, the wide variety of nutty beliefs that ended up creating this site. We also know, from experience, that it is unlikely any amount of data, evidence or analysis will dissuade the irrational from their beliefs. Something in their psyche will not let them see what is in front of them.

I cannot say at what point Mahmaud Arbery decided to try and take Travis' shotgun. What I am absolutely certain of is that this idea would not have occurred to him if no one had threatened him with a shotgun.

You haven’t seen anything yet.

The next phase in the futile but relentless Defend a Racist Murderer agenda is to manufacture forensic evidence in contradiction to the actual forensics.

It’s a shame the links to the images in that post don’t still work. Their childlike crudeness in contrast to the self-seriousness of theory they were fabricated to support was an absolute laugh riot.

 

[johnny karate]

No, Skeptik Tank is merely allowing himself to indulge in exactly the same kind speculation as most not-racist liberal-progressives do here.

Fair's fair, I would say.

And yet it’s the person you’re defending who has a history of stubbornly drawing conclusions in contradiction to the evidence in cases involving racist murderers.

Kind of pokes holes in your disingenuous attempt at “Fair is fair”, doesn’t it?

 

[bluesjnr]

Wrong again. It's this one, which is just barely ahead of the one I'm quoting.

Nothing if not stunningly predictable.

 

[Mumbles]

You have conveniently forgot to mention the white couple who appear inside the property at night with a bag.

His set all but forms a conga line when a cop attacks or kills a black kid just standing there, so **** their "but those are kids" argument - they're proving themselves to be no better than Emmit Till's lynchers as far as I care. Black 9 year olds should be responsible, white 25 year olds are just kids" as 100% classic white supremacism.

In any case, shouldn't this wildly corrupt initial DA resign, having lost any right for people to trust his judgement? He's plainly using a racial double standard when deciding who to prosecute, across multiple cases.

 

[Thermal]

His set all but forms a conga line when a cop attacks or kills a black kid just standing there, so **** their "but those are kids" argument - they're proving themselves to be no better than Emmit Till's lynchers as far as I care. Black 9 year olds should be responsible, white 25 year olds are just kids" as 100% classic white supremacism.

In any case, shouldn't this wildly corrupt initial DA resign, having lost any right for people to trust his judgement? He's plainly using a racial double standard when deciding who to prosecute, across multiple cases.

No. He should be fired, then tried and convicted.

 

[The Common Potato]

Thank you for taking the time to answer. You are, of course, correct in saying [whatever the case] "he still wound up dead".

FYI, my reason for asking is to gauge how entrenched you and others may be in the "they are racist" argument. No more, no less.

If the McMichaels had a history of trying to apprehend others of various colours whom they assumed to be criminals, then this might give them a bit of a let-off as far as the killings being racially aggravated is concerned. But I don't think they did.

 

[Meadmaker]

I doubt he had much of a plan. Not much time to put one together. At a choice between trotting off the road and through someone's yard, versus staying in the open street and rushing the nut with a shotgun...yeah, I'm gonna be doing some high speed trespassing. You can advocate all the 'Im bulletlroof' swagger you like. Its the worst possible choice. As evidence, I present exhibit A: Arbery's pellet riddled body.

To other posters: should you (god forbid) find yourself in a similar situation and think that your impressive skills and chutzpah will allow you to disarm a psycho killer, please reflect on Ahmaud Arbery, and get the **** out of there.

To be fair, it nearly worked. They were struggling for the gun during at least the final two shots. It looks to me that Arbery took his right hand off the gun in order to punch Travis. The punch wasn't enough to make Travis drop the gun, but now Travis had two hands on the gun, and Arbery only one. I think Arbery probably underestimated Travis' strength.

Rookie mistake.

The problem with deadly conflict is you're only allowed one rookie mistake.

 

[Leftus]

I doubt he had much of a plan. Not much time to put one together. At a choice between trotting off the road and through someone's yard, versus staying in the open street and rushing the nut with a shotgun...yeah, I'm gonna be doing some high speed trespassing. You can advocate all the 'Im bulletlroof' swagger you like. Its the worst possible choice. As evidence, I present exhibit A: Arbery's pellet riddled body.

To other posters: should you (god forbid) find yourself in a similar situation and think that your impressive skills and chutzpah will allow you to disarm a psycho killer, please reflect on Ahmaud Arbery, and get the **** out of there.

Getting the **** out of there doesn't mean you won't become a corpse. Just because it's the right plan doesn't mean you can execute it in a sloppy manner. Yes, I've been in a similar situation and managed to close the distance before the idiot could draw, and am alive to tell the tale.

Had he turned and ran, and they still gunned him down, does that make turning and running a bad idea? Sometimes all you have are bad options and you have to make the best of it. If you have to fight, you must completely commit to that plan. I can't speak as to Arbery's mindset, but he may have done that very calculation of "if I run, they shoot me in the back. I think I can get inside his ability to aim" and went for it. Just because it didn't work out, doesn't mean it was the wrong choice. There may not have been any choices that day where he doesn't end up dead. I mean, a "psycho killer" won't shoot you in the back. That would be rude and totally not sporting.

 

[The Common Potato]

Apparently you can only run at one speed, or you are up to no good...

Not sure why you think this, but I disagree.

Disbelief's comment might, just might, have been tongue in cheek.

 

[The Common Potato]

Oh he was on parole that's totally different. I'm outraged he lived this long. Why don't we shoot black people the first time they commit a misdemeanor and save ourselves the trouble then?

probation !=parole



Is that what you think, or are you pretending other people said it?

JoeMorgue's comment might, just might, have been tongue in cheek.

 

[The Common Potato]

I'm from the UK - near trees, houses and a lake.

Flippin' 'eck! Are we neighbours?

 

[The Common Potato]

He wasn't just jogging. He went onto a property where he absolutely knew he wasn't supposed to be. The blokes were not trying to prevent him from jogging. They were chasing down a criminal suspect.

They were not right in that regard. But they obviously were not just preventing him from jogging.

I know. I've spent most of today reading this thread.

 

[smartcooky]

It is. Unless you're a racist.

Actually, I would be far more concerned about the two 12 year olds. The 25 year old male is an adult, but the kids might do something stupid like try to climb the unfinished wall structures and fall off or injure themselves. I would also be concerned that if something like that happened, I could end up being held responsible for that for not leaving my building site in safe coindition - especially in litigation-crazy USA.

 

[The Common Potato]

We'll see. Maybe something about an object laying in the road "which may or may not have been connected to the event" will come out at trial. Maybe not.

Is your name a play on "Commentator" ?

A bit. I come from Lancashire and went to a boarding school in the south of England. A schoolmate decided that everyone from Oop North 'et nobbut chip butties; the name stuck. I decided to use it online, getting on towards 20 years ago.

You might need a translator for the highlighted bit.

 

[smartcooky]

You haven’t seen anything yet.

The next phase in the futile but relentless Defend a Racist Murderer agenda is to manufacture forensic evidence in contradiction to the actual forensics.

It’s a shame the links to the images in that post don’t still work. Their childlike crudeness in contrast to the self-seriousness of theory they were fabricated to support was an absolute laugh riot.

Yeah, and we saw a similar "blame the black guy and make up evidence to make it his fault" shtick from our resident racists in the Amber Geiger case - the white off-duty Policewoman who walked into the wrong apartment (thinking it was hers) and shot and killed the black owner in his own home.

 

[Babbylonian]

Yeah, and we saw a similar "blame the black guy and make up evidence to make it his fault" shtick from or resident racists in the Amber Geiger case - the white off-duty Policewoman who walked into the wrong apartment (thinking it was hers) and shot and killed the black ownermarijuana user in his own home.

FTFY

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

JoeMorgue's comment might, just might, have been tongue in cheek.

Not tongue and cheek, but pretending that other posters have said things that they haven't said. Almost all of his posts are like that.

 

[Mumbles]

Getting the **** out of there doesn't mean you won't become a corpse. Just because it's the right plan doesn't mean you can execute it in a sloppy manner. Yes, I've been in a similar situation and managed to close the distance before the idiot could draw, and am alive to tell the tale.

Had he turned and ran, and they still gunned him down, does that make turning and running a bad idea? Sometimes all you have are bad options and you have to make the best of it. If you have to fight, you must completely commit to that plan. I can't speak as to Arbery's mindset, but he may have done that very calculation of "if I run, they shoot me in the back. I think I can get inside his ability to aim" and went for it.

It doesn't help that these racist goons could also just, you know, chase him in their truck, thus giving them an enormous speed advantage if he did run.

 

[smartcooky]

FTFY