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Food Supply Disruptions - Government Response

lomiller said:
Starvation is a terrible death and that’s what most would face. It’s better just to kill them.. Pigs can actually survive when set free like that, but they become pets that destroy property and damage crops.
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I think you mean pests.

The kind that you eat are also very, very, large, and can run fast. You can't let pigs run around people.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
Because when they send them for slaughter they are recouping some of the costs in selling the meat. Most of the farmers who say they have to liquidate their holdings are assuming the slaughterhouses will remain active and buy the meat, perhaps even that the meat-packing plants will stop closing now that the government is going to force those employees back to work. They're not giving the animals away. Most farmers don't have near the capability to kill their animals, they only produce them.
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Yet, I am reading that they are (in some cases) killing animals and composting- or otherwise disposing of- the corpses.
That is not recouping any cost, as selling to the slaughterhouse does, so the question stands. How is giving the animals away substantively different for the producer than wasting them?
 
I wonder if my HOA would let me have a couple of hens? I like fresh eggs.






I doubt they'd be okay with me putting a dairy cow int eh back yard though. And I'm really not sure I'm down with milking her every day either.
 
Distracted1 said:
Yet, I am reading that they are (in some cases) killing animals and composting- or otherwise disposing of- the corpses.
That is not recouping any cost, as selling to the slaughterhouse does, so the question stands. How is giving the animals away substantively different for the producer than wasting them?
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I'd not known that some were resorting to slaughtering the excess stock themselves, but as to why they don't give it away I can only ask---how? A line of people showing up to carry off an animal each? Transport trucks taking them away----to where? Food banks are scattered everywhere, and aren't going to be able to handle a huge sudden influx. All of these options are incompatible with minimizing contacts between large groups of people. Given that this crisis is supposed to be temporary, and we're supposed to be able to pick up again after it's over, we need to provide support for the very bottom, the anchor, of the supply chains, to ensure they don't come loose and break away when we have to put weight on them again.
 
Emily's Cat said:
....I doubt they'd be okay with me putting a dairy cow int eh back yard though. And I'm really not sure I'm down with milking her every day either.
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Ya gotta getta goat. A goat is about the right size, depending on your yard, and goat milk is under-rated.
 
'It's their own fault': HHS Secretary Alex Azar says meat processing workers' 'home and social conditions' are to blame for rapid spread of coronavirus - not their working conditions

Daily Mail said:
Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar dismissed concerns about the spread of the coronavirus at meat packing plants, saying workers were more likely to catch the deadly disease at home or in social situations.

Azar's remarks were made on a phone call with Democratic and Republican lawmakers and came after President Donald Trump invoked the Defense Production Act to keep meat plants open amid fears of a food shortage.

But the plants have also had high outbreaks of the coronavirus among workers - more than 10,000 have tested positive nationwide with at least 45 deaths.

Some of the lawmakers on the April 28 call with Azar told Politico he said it was the 'home and social' aspects of workers' lives rather than the conditions inside the facilities that led to people catching the disease.

Azar, a member of the White House's Coronavirus Task Force, noted many workers live in group housing, which contributed to the spread, and suggested one solution would be to send in more law enforcement officials to enforce social distancing rules.

Several people on the call interpreted his remarks as blaming the workers.

'He was essentially turning it around, blaming the victim and implying that their lifestyle was the problem,' Democratic Rep. Ann Kuster of New Hampshire told Politico. 'Their theory of the case is that they are not becoming infected in the meat processing plant, they're becoming infected because of the way they live in their home.'

An HHS spokesperson told the news website it doesn't comment on Azar's conversations with lawmakers but called it 'an inaccurate representation of Secretary's Azar's comments during the discussion.'

At least 10,000 meat industry workers have tested positive since the pandemic began, according to an analysis by USA Today and the Midwest Center for Investigative Reporting.

At least 170 plants in 29 states have had one or more workers test positive for the coronavirus. Some of those workers also have infected others, which is included in the count.

Most meat packing workers are Latino and many are illegal immigrants.

About 44 percent of meatpackers are Latino, according to the Center for Economic and Policy Research and 80 percent are undocumented or refugees, according to an analysis from The League of United Latin American Citizens...
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-social-conditions-caused-spread-corona.html
 
Azar, a member of the White House's Coronavirus Task Force, noted many workers live in group housing, which contributed to the spread, and suggested one solution would be to send in more law enforcement officials to enforce social distancing rules.
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Earlier I said that the Trump administration hadn't done anything extremely stupid. Let me revise and extend those remarks.


So, this quote here demonstrates that Secretary Azar, and I think we can assume everyone at the top of the Trump coronavirus team, knows that there is a problem. We know there is a problem, and we know that they know, because they are at least considering solutions to the problem.

And we know that their proposed solution is dumb as hell, which is exactly what we would expect.

ETA: Meanwhile, more and more stories in the news about limited selections and higher prices. Still not a real crisis, but definitely a small problem that is threatening to become a big problem. And what is Team Trump doing about it? Well Azar says the above is "an inaccurate representation of Secretary's Azar's comments", but since that's the only thing we've heard, I think we can assume that it is actually a pretty accurate representation. i.e. it is being dismissed as insignificant, and certainly not the fault of anyone important.
 
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Meadmaker said:
Earlier I said that the Trump administration hadn't done anything extremely stupid. Let me revise and extend those remarks.


So, this quote here demonstrates that Secretary Azar, and I think we can assume everyone at the top of the Trump coronavirus team, knows that there is a problem. We know there is a problem, and we know that they know, because they are at least considering solutions to the problem.

And we know that their proposed solution is dumb as hell, which is exactly what we would expect.

ETA: Meanwhile, more and more stories in the news about limited selections and higher prices. Still not a real crisis, but definitely a small problem that is threatening to become a big problem. And what is Team Trump doing about it? Well Azar says the above is "an inaccurate representation of Secretary's Azar's comments", but since that's the only thing we've heard, I think we can assume that it is actually a pretty accurate representation. i.e. it is being dismissed as insignificant, and certainly not the fault of anyone important.
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If it was being dismissed as insignificant why was Defense Production Act invoked.

Up until recently the president may not have been aware (who knows) but I am certain their are people who were watching that supply line as well as many others.
 
eeyore1954 said:
If it was being dismissed as insignificant why was Defense Production Act invoked.

Up until recently the president may not have been aware (who knows) but I am certain their are people who were watching that supply line as well as many others.
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I think the answer was because invoking the Defense Production Act was the easiest thing to do that didn't actually require a real plan. We have a real issue with meat plants closing down, so issue an executive order that says they have to stay open...….except it doesn't actually say that.

To be fair, while there is some disruption in supply, it still isn't a crisis, so I can't say that his policies have been a disaster in this case. Heck, for all I know, he or his administration may have absolutely done something useful. I'm not aware of it, but it could have happened. It's not like CNN is going to put "Trump Saves Meat Supply" in a headline, so if anyone knows of anything he actually did, as opposed to issuing an insignificant executive order, by all means talk about it here.
 
Meadmaker said:
I think the answer was because invoking the Defense Production Act was the easiest thing to do that didn't actually require a real plan. We have a real issue with meat plants closing down, so issue an executive order that says they have to stay open...….except it doesn't actually say that.

To be fair, while there is some disruption in supply, it still isn't a crisis, so I can't say that his policies have been a disaster in this case. Heck, for all I know, he or his administration may have absolutely done something useful. I'm not aware of it, but it could have happened. It's not like CNN is going to put "Trump Saves Meat Supply" in a headline, so if anyone knows of anything he actually did, as opposed to issuing an insignificant executive order, by all means talk about it here.
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My main point here is I would believe there are disaster plans that have been in place for years that deal with monitoring this and many supply chains. If not someone has been squandering our tax dollars.
Long before anyone even dreamed of a President Trump.

To be fair, while there is some disruption in supply, it still isn't a crisis
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Leaving the Trump administration aside, in general do you feel the government should step in if there is some disruption or should they just monitor and be ready if it becomes more than an inconvenience.
 
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Obviously something is a badly wrong with the commercial supply chain the US. In the UK we had the same issues with supplies of things like meat, but by and large supermarkets and their supply chains have adapted and if the range of meat products has been narrowed, shops longer carrying 20 different kinds of sausages, availability seems fine, so yeah it sounds like there's a systemic fault in the US chain.
 
eeyore1954 said:
Leaving the Trump administration aside, in general do you feel the government should step in if there is some disruption or should they just monitor and be ready if it becomes more than an inconvenience.
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They should be aware of the situation well enough to know that a crisis is about to happen, and should intervene to prevent it.

In other words, right at this minute, it is an inconvenience. If it is not likely to be worse than that in the future, then no intervention is necessary, beyond what is already being done. However, the future is pretty predictable, to those with the data. They should be looking ahead, and if it is likely that the situation will get worse, then they should intervene now to prevent it.
 
Garrison said:
Obviously something is a badly wrong with the commercial supply chain the US. In the UK we had the same issues with supplies of things like meat, but by and large supermarkets and their supply chains have adapted and if the range of meat products has been narrowed, shops longer carrying 20 different kinds of sausages, availability seems fine, so yeah it sounds like there's a systemic fault in the US chain.
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Hmm. I haven't noticed a lack of meat so far, just a reduction in selection as well as customer limits.
 
I've just been to the stores. Meat supplies were near-normal. Pork was a bit sparse my first time by but five minutes later the employee was there filling the case from a big cart-load.
 
Garrison said:
Obviously something is a badly wrong with the commercial supply chain the US. In the UK we had the same issues with supplies of things like meat, but by and large supermarkets and their supply chains have adapted and if the range of meat products has been narrowed, shops longer carrying 20 different kinds of sausages, availability seems fine, so yeah it sounds like there's a systemic fault in the US chain.
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Except from what I see as of now there are not issues at least not where I live in NY.
 
Garrison said:
Obviously something is a badly wrong with the commercial supply chain the US. In the UK we had the same issues with supplies of things like meat, but by and large supermarkets and their supply chains have adapted and if the range of meat products has been narrowed, shops longer carrying 20 different kinds of sausages, availability seems fine, so yeah it sounds like there's a systemic fault in the US chain.
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Emily's Cat said:
Hmm. I haven't noticed a lack of meat so far, just a reduction in selection as well as customer limits.
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Trebuchet said:
I've just been to the stores. Meat supplies were near-normal. Pork was a bit sparse my first time by but five minutes later the employee was there filling the case from a big cart-load.
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eeyore1954 said:
Except from what I see as of now there are not issues at least not where I live in NY.
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No shortages here in Durham, NC yet, either.

I was at the grocery store yesterday morning and had an abundance of choices, although a two item limit on some of them.

Bought 5 lbs. of chicken breasts (could have gotten 10 with the two item limit, but my freezer is getting full), four different kinds of sausages, and a ham (spiral cut). Also toilet paper, which, I confess, I didn't really need. :blush: In my defense there was serendipity involved. I'm probably good on the TP front through at least November. Mebbe 2020.

Anything remotely resembling a disinfectant product was a no go, though. Literally bare shelves.
 
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