Food Supply Disruptions - Government Response

[Meadmaker]

Trump's going to fix that for them.

He's going to give their employers immunity from lawful redress.

That ought to make them happier.

And the employers will be extra careful about safety knowing they can't be sued.


In all seriousness, if I were President, I could see doing something somewhat like this, including the liability waiver. However, what it would look like is that I would call the head of the USDA and say, "I want the meat plants kept open. Figure out if there is anything the federal government can do to make them safer, and how much it will cost. I've got 500 million dollars available in funds that have already been appropriated. If that's not enough, I'll call Mitch and Nancy and make sure you get more. This is food we're talking about. If the richest country in the world can't put hamburger on the shelves, we don't deserve to get another four years. Make it happen, and if anything is in your way, call me ASAP."

I doubt that it happened that way.

 

[Meadmaker]

Well, he is taking credit for solving the problem. Let's see if it is actually solved.

Trump Retweeted

North American Meat Institute
@MeatInstitute
"We are grateful to @realDonaldTrump for protecting our nation’s food supply," said @MeatInstitute Pres. & CEO Julie Anna Potts. "The safety of the heroic men & women working in the meat & poultry industry is the 1st priority. And as it is assured, facilities should re-open.

The White House
@WhiteHouse
Our nation has ample supply of food—and President @realDonaldTrump is clearing the bottleneck and ensuring that our farmers and ranchers can sell their products.

Hey, if I get hamburger next week, and we don't hear of tons of disease at the packing houses, I'll give credit where credit is due.

And if not, I'll give blame where blame is due.

 

[Horatius]

Well, he is taking credit for solving the problem. Let's see if it is actually solved.



Hey, if I get hamburger next week, and we don't hear of tons of disease at the packing houses, I'll give credit where credit is due.

And if not, I'll give blame where blame is due.

Reading that tweet, it's actually an amazingly good example of how to write in the Trump Era. It should probably end up in a textbook at some point. It strikes a great balance of sounding like it means one thing, while it can also mean the exact opposite, all while maintaining a tone that won't trigger Trump's attack response, and covering their asses.

North American Meat Institute
@MeatInstitute
"We are grateful to @realDonaldTrump for protecting our nation’s food supply," said @MeatInstitute Pres. & CEO Julie Anna Potts. "The safety of the heroic men & women working in the meat & poultry industry is the 1st priority. And as it is assured, facilities should re-open.​

They start strong right away: Fulsome Praise for Dear Leader. It's a near-certainty that Trump won't read any further than this, and absolutely certain he won't understand anything else, even if he does read it.

North American Meat Institute
@MeatInstitute
"We are grateful to @realDonaldTrump for protecting our nation’s food supply," said @MeatInstitute Pres. & CEO Julie Anna Potts. "The safety of the heroic men & women working in the meat & poultry industry is the 1st priority. And as it is assured, facilities should re-open.​

Now we see them start to twist. Notice how they don't say whose "1st priority" this is, or even should be. Is it Trump's first priority? Maybe, that's certainly what Trump will think they're saying. Is it the industry's? The public's? Hey, who knows, could be anyone's!

North American Meat Institute
@MeatInstitute
"We are grateful to @realDonaldTrump for protecting our nation’s food supply," said @MeatInstitute Pres. & CEO Julie Anna Potts. "The safety of the heroic men & women working in the meat & poultry industry is the 1st priority. And as it is assured, facilities should re-open.​

And then there's the "**** you" to Trump's order to re-open. "And as it is assured...." But of course, there's no plans for creating such assurances. No plans, no equipment, no leadership, nothing. So, yes, they "should re-open" (Of course we agree with Dear Leader! We "should" re-open!"), but when they don't actually re-open, they can blame it on the safety not being assured.

And since safety is everyone's priority, and no-one's, no one in particular can be blamed when they don't re-open.

But, if they do re-open, and something happens, as it almost certainly will, they can blame Trump, since they were ordered to re-open.

They've covered their ass for every possibility, while making Trump think they're wholly on his side.

Brilliant!

 

[Meadmaker]

Reason magazine has some analysis of the executive order today.

https://reason.com/2020/04/29/the-e...pel-companies-with-sick-workers-to-stay-open/


As I thought, it doesn't actually say what the media says it says. It doesn't say meat facilities have to stay open. It doesn't say that employees can't sue employers.

What it says, apparently if you read through the eyes of the lawyers, is that state and local authorities cannot force meat packing plants to close. As for lawsuits, apparently if an employer follows all the regulations, that is taken as evidence that suits alleging worker endangerment do not have merit. What this order says is that the CDC guidelines are the appropriate regulations related to Covid-19, so that if a worker (or next of kin) files suit in the future, the employer can say that they followed the guidelines, so they shouldn't be held liable.

And, one of the most significant of those guidelines is that workers who have come in close contact with someone who tested positive are not required to self quarantine. In other words, if they guy next to you on the line gets sick, you're still allowed to come to work.

So, it isn't a nothingburger, but it's not a Big Mac either. It's not nearly what it was portrayed as. Now, the big question is, will it work. Trump has already taken credit for saving the meat supply. Let's see what happens by next week.

 

[Joe Random]

I did my twice-monthly shopping run yesterday, fully expecting to see a run on meats. To my surprise the one and only item I couldn't find were turkey sausages of the non-breakfast variety. Everything else, including pork in all its forms, was amply stocked. They even had ground turkey sausage in those 1-2lb bulk tubes, just not the 5-packs of sausages in casing.

Naturally that was the one meat item I actually needed/wanted so I had to make a substitution, but the panic buying I was expecting to see simply hadn't happened. Quite shocking, as my state did the whole 'empty the shelves of TP and hand sanitizer' back when we had a total of around 10 cases and no deaths, and were still a ways away from any mandated shutdowns or the like.

 

[Distracted1]

Reason magazine has some analysis of the executive order today.

https://reason.com/2020/04/29/the-e...pel-companies-with-sick-workers-to-stay-open/


As I thought, it doesn't actually say what the media says it says. It doesn't say meat facilities have to stay open. It doesn't say that employees can't sue employers.

What it says, apparently if you read through the eyes of the lawyers, is that state and local authorities cannot force meat packing plants to close. As for lawsuits, apparently if an employer follows all the regulations, that is taken as evidence that suits alleging worker endangerment do not have merit. What this order says is that the CDC guidelines are the appropriate regulations related to Covid-19, so that if a worker (or next of kin) files suit in the future, the employer can say that they followed the guidelines, so they shouldn't be held liable.

And, one of the most significant of those guidelines is that workers who have come in close contact with someone who tested positive are not required to self quarantine. In other words, if they guy next to you on the line gets sick, you're still allowed to come to work.

So, it isn't a nothingburger, but it's not a Big Mac either. It's not nearly what it was portrayed as. Now, the big question is, will it work. Trump has already taken credit for saving the meat supply. Let's see what happens by next week.

"Allowed" to come to work.
Meaning that if you do not because there is a demonstrable danger of becoming infected, you are a "voluntary quit"- and are not able to collect unemployment benefits.

So, yes, "allowed"- therefore if you do not you will receive no help- regardless of how many of your coworkers are becoming infected.

Then again, if you have been wanting your Mother-in-law to get out of that in-law suite......

 

[eeyore1954]

So that means the restaurants are going to not have chicken tenders?

They have not been selling them at McDonald's where I live NY for probably a month. They do sell the Nuggets but as an old commercial used to say "parts is parts"

 

[eeyore1954]

And the employers will be extra careful about safety knowing they can't be sued.


In all seriousness, if I were President, I could see doing something somewhat like this, including the liability waiver. However, what it would look like is that I would call the head of the USDA and say, "I want the meat plants kept open. Figure out if there is anything the federal government can do to make them safer, and how much it will cost. I've got 500 million dollars available in funds that have already been appropriated. If that's not enough, I'll call Mitch and Nancy and make sure you get more. This is food we're talking about. If the richest country in the world can't put hamburger on the shelves, we don't deserve to get another four years. Make it happen, and if anything is in your way, call me ASAP."

I doubt that it happened that way.

Mitch would demand we only supply frozen burgers with Jack Daniels or some similar flavor and Nancy would say close the plants and only provide plant based alternatives.

I am sure there are plans already waiting to continue the food supply (as there probably have been for years) but whether or not ground beef is available is probably not its main priority.

I was able to buy 2 1/2 pounds of skirt steak this morning for a BBQ. So the chain is not broken yet. Almost had to take out a mortgage on the house though.

 

[crescent]

And the employers will be extra careful about safety knowing they can't be sued.


In all seriousness, if I were President, I could see doing something somewhat like this, including the liability waiver. However, what it would look like is that I would call the head of the USDA and say, "I want the meat plants kept open. Figure out if there is anything the federal government can do to make them safer, and how much it will cost. I've got 500 million dollars available in funds that have already been appropriated. If that's not enough, I'll call Mitch and Nancy and make sure you get more. This is food we're talking about. If the richest country in the world can't put hamburger on the shelves, we don't deserve to get another four years. Make it happen, and if anything is in your way, call me ASAP."

I doubt that it happened that way.

I could see that - with some additions:
rationing - don't make it crazy hard, but limit per person-per visit to store purchase amounts. People could still work around that by making multiple purchases and by visiting stores, but it would be a pain and that might dissuade the worst of the idiots who want to buy the entire butcher's section of the store.

Allow a closure of a week or two to go along with implementing the safety measures. A week or two of running down supplies in frozen warehouses is not going to hurt anyone - but staying open and forcing employees to choose between unsafe work conditions or losing the job without unemployment benefits could hurt people.

 

[eeyore1954]

I could see that - with some additions:
rationing - don't make it crazy hard, but limit per person-per visit to store purchase amounts. People could still work around that by making multiple purchases and by visiting stores, but it would be a pain and that might dissuade the worst of the idiots who want to buy the entire butcher's section of the store.

Allow a closure of a week or two to go along with implementing the safety measures. A week or two of running down supplies in frozen warehouses is not going to hurt anyone - but staying open and forcing employees to choose between unsafe work conditions or losing the job without unemployment benefits could hurt people.

In NY they already ration what meat you can buy at the grocery store. 2 packages of each type. Don't think it is the law but all the grocery stores I go to have been doing it since March.

ETA: I searched google for NY rationing of meat and found this from the 1942 NY Times.
NO RUSH AT STORES TO BUY TINNED FOOD BEFORE RATIONING; Grocers Told by OPA Counsel They Are Not Required to Sell to Suspected Hoarders QUANTITIES ARE LIMITED First Point Values Will Hold Back Emergency Stocks -Upward Revision Planned NO RUSH AT STORES TO BUY TINNED FOOD

 

[Meadmaker]

Well, he is taking credit for solving the problem. Let's see if it is actually solved.



Hey, if I get hamburger next week, and we don't hear of tons of disease at the packing houses, I'll give credit where credit is due.

And if not, I'll give blame where blame is due.

Lot of stories in the news today about grocery stores limiting meat purchases.

Not looking good.

It doesn't seem that the highly touted executive order actually accomplished anything. Go figure. Still, a bit too early to say, but things aren't going in a positive direction.

 

[quadraginta]

Lot of stories in the news today about grocery stores limiting meat purchases.

Not looking good.

It doesn't seem that the highly touted executive order actually accomplished anything. Go figure. Still, a bit too early to say, but things aren't going in a positive direction.

Grocery stores around here have been limiting purchases of meat for a while. Several weeks, probably.

They also have been limiting purchases of toilet paper, disinfectant products, and a number of other things.

I figured it was to avoid the sort of panic buying that created the Great Toilet Paper Wasteland of 2020. The supply end of our distribution just isn't designed to address that.

That doesn't mean that real shortages are not in a possible future, but taken by itself I don't think that limiting purchases is proof of any dire prospects. Not yet, anyhow.

 

[pgwenthold]

We've been limited to 3 items of bread, 3 packs of tp, 3 containers of cleaning supplies or 3 packages of meat since the beginning. We were initially limited to 3 gals of milk but they lifted that (milk is constantly replenished and there is plenty).

We go through about 3 + gals of milk each week so need to shop.

The only thing that's been an issue for us is flour. We are still ok could use more before too long.

 

[Stacyhs]

I did our grocery shopping yesterday. Plenty of meat of every kind. The only thing I haven't been able to find for weeks now is, believe it or not, Pasta Roni.

 

[Meadmaker]

Wendy's ran out of beef in some areas of the country.

I'm pretty sure that's not the result of panic buying.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/meat-shortages-leave-wendy-diners-234925159.html

 

[Ladewig]

Does anyone here know if it has been established that the meatpacking workers were infected at work as opposed to at home or the grocery store or wherever?

I do not have an evidenced-based answer.

I suspect the high transmission rate was less a matter of workers standing too close together and more a matter of them being paid jack so that 5-7 of them crowd into a one-bedroom apartment

 

[William Parcher]

I do not have an evidenced-based answer.

I suspect the high transmission rate was less a matter of workers standing too close together and more a matter of them being paid jack so that 5-7 of them crowd into a one-bedroom apartment

All 5-7 of them are wearing masks at home and sanitizing constantly? Or, are they instead "rolling the dice"?

 

[quadraginta]

Wendy's ran out of beef in some areas of the country.

I'm pretty sure that's not the result of panic buying.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/meat-shortages-leave-wendy-diners-234925159.html

I agree.

But since it seems to be specific to Wendy's, and not even to all Wendy's, I suspect that, as the article suggested, it may well be a result of factors unique to the supply chain Wendy's has customized to support their 'Fresh, Never Frozen' marketing.

This may well be the first signs of scarcity in the hamburger distribution channels. Other signs seem to support that.

But it isn't exactly widespread ... yet.

 

[William Parcher]

I've seen photos of the meat processing workers and they are wearing masks on the job. But I haven't seen photos of them at the grocery store or other places including situations at their homes and the homes of others. We don't know how all these thousands of workers behave when they aren't at work. Many or some of them might be "muh rights" kind of people and then simply not wear masks and/or do proper social distancing.

 

[crescent]

I've seen photos of the meat processing workers and they are wearing masks on the job. But I haven't seen photos of them at the grocery store or other places including situations at their homes and the homes of others. We don't know how all these thousands of workers behave when they aren't at work. Many or some of them might be "muh rights" kind of people and then simply not wear masks and/or do proper social distancing.

Around where I grew up there is a big "meat packing plant" with the associated feedlots and such (Once it was called Monfort, then ConAgra, now it is JBS or Swift). The employees tend to be the working poor, following immigration trajectories similar to what has happened in the past with other immigrant-dominated lines of work.

When my Dad was a young man, the industry was staffed with poorer white people. Then they moved up the ladder and in my childhood it was staffed with Mexican immigrants, later trending to immigrants from Central America (because the Mexican immigrants had moved up the ladder as they became more established). Now it is mostly immigrants from Somalia, but still with a lot of Central American immigrants mixed in.

They are the working poor. They mostly live in poor quality housing, with extended families living in houses that were meant to house single families - think of a three bedroom house with six adults and eight kids living in it.

They are not pseudo-patriotic rednecks. Just poor immigrants people scratching to get by.