The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Ivanka's PA has also tested positive.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Worth bearing in mind amongst all this that Trump is urging states to re-open and he, his press secretary, and sundry other officials and cronies are saying that there shouldn't be much testing of the general public, that everybody in the White House is tested several times a week.

 

[varwoche]

...Trump gave up two months or more, claiming the virus would "just disappear," and now the death count approaches 80,000.

He's flogging that same bs again. It will go away by itself. We don't need testing. We don't even need a vaccine. Never mind this contradicts the experts.

While we discuss what should have been done, let's not forget what should not have been done:

call it a hoax
blame dems and the press
ignore daily briefing
waste several critical weeks
encourage idiotic, counter-productive protests
ignore his own team of experts
pretend there is adequate PPE
pretend there is adequate testing
suggest Clorox

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Or better yet, the ones he's been touting that actually increase the chances of a fatal outcome.

Oh wouldn't that be sweet irony, Trump having a heart attack from using hydroxychloroquine.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have to say that when he restricted travel from Europe, I thought it was just a dramatic play to feed his ego. I was mistaken about that and now think that it should have been done earlier.

To be sure, the WHO says that such travel restrictions are ineffective and so I could be wrong now just as I think I was wrong then.

Such restrictions are especially ineffective when you try to shut the barn door after all the animals have left and are dispersing all over the country already.

A more effective action at that time would have been to shut NY down like Cuomo did.

 

[Trebuchet]

And of course, the European ban initially excluded countries where he had golf resorts.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Ivanka's PA has also tested positive.

It took me forever to find this.

PA= physician's assistant, not personal assistant.

NY Post: Ivanka Trump’s personal assistant latest to test positive for coronavirus

The aide to Trump has been teleworking and hasn’t been in the presence of the president’s daughter in weeks, a source told CNN.

Darn.

And FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn has been forced to self-isolate for two weeks after exposure to Miller, Politico reported

Hahn was advised to do so after contact tracing linked him to coronavirus task force spokesperson Katie Miller — the wife of presidential advisor Stephen Miller — who has also tested positive.

More of that useless contact tracing.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Oh, a detail I hadn't seen before: Trump and Pence are now being tested daily

Trump is also lying about his aide, saying that he's had "very little personal contact" with him.

 

[Bob001]

.....
To be sure, the WHO says that such travel restrictions are ineffective and so I could be wrong now just as I think I was wrong then.

I think it depends on how you interpret "ineffective." They wouldn't prevent the spread, but if they slowed it enough to allow more time for preparation, that could make a big difference.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Oh, a detail I hadn't seen before: Trump and Pence are now being tested daily

Trump is also lying about his aide, saying that he's had "very little personal contact" with him.

It's his knee-jerk reaction, 'I don't know him'.

Trump is again today going with his wishful fantasy: "it's going to go away on it's own before we have a vaccine."

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

But then you just ignored literally weeks worth of messages that have explained, in detail, exactly what Trump should have done in response to this crisis, so that you can keep defending the indefensible.

I know what those people think Tump should have done, as there is no shortage of posts where they tell us so. Meadmaker in particular had some good points.

But the poster to whom I directed the question had assumed us repeatedly that the flu was thousands of times more deadly and more easily spread. She also criticized Trump for stopping Chinese nationals from coming to the US. Now she's telling us that if Trump had done his job the cases could have been kept to a reasonable number. Quite interesting, to say the least. I didn't really expect an answer (from her), but thought I'd ask anyways.

I stand by my assessment of your character.

How much do you think that concerns me?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Okay, so you misspelled "What".

Huh?

 

[Giordano]

Ivanka's PA has also tested positive.

And apparently quite a number of secret service agents. I do hope those infected will have minimal disease. But I hope it scares Trump a lot.

“And now was acknowledged the presence of the Red Death. He had come like a thief in the night... and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.”

Masque of the Red Death
Edgar Allan Poe

 

[johnny karate]

I know what those people think Tump should have done, as there is no shortage of posts where they tell us so. Meadmaker in particular had some good points.

But the poster to whom I directed the question had assumed us repeatedly that the flu was thousands of times more deadly and more easily spread. She also criticized Trump for stopping Chinese nationals from coming to the US. Now she's telling us that if Trump had done his job the cases could have been kept to a reasonable number. Quite interesting, to say the least. I didn't really expect an answer (from her), but thought I'd ask anyways.

Yeah, we need to be clear on this point.

Everyone apparently assumed that you were interested in having an honest discussion about the actual issue when it’s pretty obvious that your only interest is in carefully crafting a rhetorical gotcha based on a misrepresentation of another poster’s argument.

And based on your posting history, I’m not sure why anyone would have made that assumption in the first place.

 

[Horatius]

Ivanka's PA has also tested positive.

I know it's bad form to say, "I told you so", but well, we ******* told them so, Trumpettes. We told them that viruses didn't give a **** about their usual ********, and that denying reality would eventually bite them in the ass.

Well, enjoy your ass-bites, Trumpette.

How much do you think that concerns me?

I'm guessing as little as Trump's failures concern you.

Huh?

Go back and re-read your post.

 

[Stacyhs]

Oh wouldn't that be sweet irony, Trump having a heart attack from using hydroxychloroquine.

You had me at 'hear attack'.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Yeah, we need to be clear on this point.

Everyone apparently assumed that you were interested in having an honest discussion about the actual issue when it’s pretty obvious that your only interest is in carefully crafting a rhetorical gotcha based on a misrepresentation of another poster’s argument.

And based on your posting history, I’m not sure why anyone would have made that assumption in the first place.

Except if wasn't a misrepresentation, and it wasn't a rhetorical gotcha. You're probably right that it's a gotcha, but that's not my fault and what I was getting at in the first place. Saying with a high degree of confidence that C-19 is like a really bad cold and thousands of times less deadly than the flu, and then complaining that Trump didn't "do his job" makes me wonder what that poster thinks the job should have been.

 

[alfaniner]

Worth bearing in mind amongst all this that Trump is urging states to re-open and he, his press secretary, and sundry other officials and cronies are saying that there shouldn't be much testing of the general public, that everybody in the White House is tested several times a week.[/QUOTE]

I have little problem with this. It should have been being done practically from day one, for the very top tier, anyway. Oh, I kind of wish the only test was with the long swabs, which The PDJT hated so much.

But everybody in the country should be able to get tested at least once, so we could at least get a baseline. (Yes, I know that's impossible especially to get us all done at roughly the same time.)

 

[newyorkguy]

...Everyone apparently assumed that you were interested in having an honest discussion about the actual issue...

Not everyone!

What's this about someone posting that coronavirus is like a really bad cold and thousands of times less deadly than the flu? Many thousands of times less deadly? What does it do, bring people back to life? I don't recall anyone writing that or anything like it.

Is Rush Limbaugh a member of ISF?

 

[Blue Mountain]

He should have made certain that they were quarantined and tested as they returned. Otherwise what is the logic? That the nature of your passport determines if you are infectious or not? The political nature of Trump’s motivation is made all too clear by this indifference to the actual public health aspects of his order.

I keep banging on this drum: look at the difference between Canada's "better late than never" response compared to the massive failure seen in the US. The population in the US is 8.6 times that of Canada. This means, all other things being equal, one would expect the body count in the US to be 8.6 times that of Canada.

Now one thing that isn't equal is the sky-high infection and mortality rates in New York State, so in the following table I try to even that out:

US population |

331.012​

| million
Less: population of New York State |

19.623​

| million
Adjusted population |

311.389​

| million
Total US deaths to 8 May |

78,615​

| worldometer.com
Less: deaths in New York State |

26,585​

| worldometer.com
Adjusted death count |

52,030​

| (= 78,615 - 26,585)
Adjusted deaths/adjusted million population |

167.1​

| (=52,030 ÷ 311.389)
Adjusted total deaths |

55,326​

| (=167.1 × 331.012)
Deaths in Canada to 8 May |

4,232​

| canada.ca/coronavirus
Expected US deaths based on Canada:US ratio |

35,125​

| (=4,232 × 8.3 [Canada:US population ratio])
Excess US fatalities compared to Canada |

16,905​

| (=52,030 - 35,125)

Note that even after adjusting for New York State, the US still has nearly 17,000 excess deaths after multiplying Canada's current deaths (4,232) by the population ratio.

In my opinion, a lot of these 16,905 deaths can be laid at the feet of President Trump, his lack of leadership, his hollowing out of US institutions, and his propensity to appoint sycophants instead of qualified people to important posts. Also, from the outside looking in: to this Canadian, Americans are less trusting of their government overall. This has been the case for a very long time, but has certainly been exacerbated since Reagan and aggravated by Trump.