The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[Stacyhs]

And, to be fair to the average Joe on the street, he's a step or two more credible than the President of the United States.

My dogs are more credible than Trump. When they bark, I know they hear something/someone outside. When Trump barks, I just want to smack him with a rolled up Time magazine. But he'd like that.

 

[William Parcher]

I did, at least the armed ones.

Well, anyway we are waiting now for A Unique Person to inform us of the shooting militias.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

When people are asking in governments, online, and in the msm why WHO was not labeling it as such when it looked serious and CLEARLY qualified based on past pandemics it seemed to downplay the seriousness of the emergency.

The news media has to have a story. Investigating the facts? Someone else's job.

Public buy-in from people who are regular citizens of the world is essential to getting fast collective action. Marketing 101. Did they think it would shrink back at that point? From quickly infiltrating dozens of countries around the globe through travel for many weeks? They actually said it could be contained with good measures. Are they nuts? Did they think Europe could act like China? Maybe China didn't tell them all they needed to know but I could see it on TV and the internet for myself so I hardly think they were unaware.

I recall thinking at that time "They must know something I do not know about this to say that". But they didnt.

And had the WHO made an official "pandemic" announcement magic would have happened?

WHO phases were developed with influenza in mind.

Phase 5 is characterized by human-to-human spread of the virus into at least two countries in one WHO region. While most countries will not be affected at this stage, the declaration of Phase 5 is a strong signal that a pandemic is imminent and that the time to finalize the organization, communication, and implementation of the planned mitigation measures is short.

Phase 6, the pandemic phase, is characterized by community level outbreaks in at least one other country in a different WHO region in addition to the criteria defined in Phase 5. Designation of this phase will indicate that a global pandemic is under way.

What did you expect to happen when the WHO made the official call this was a pandemic?

The Guardian, March: What is a pandemic and does it change the approach to coronavirus?

If declaring a pandemic triggers global panic, this can defeat the purpose of trying to raise awareness. Much has been written about whether the declaration of H1N1, colloquially known as “swine flu”, as a pandemic in 2009, caused unnecessary panic, overwhelming emergency departments and causing governments to overspend on antiviral medications. Coronavirus symptoms are generally mild and most people recover within six days. ...

The WHO has stressed that using the word “pandemic” does not signal a change in its advice. It is still urging countries to “detect, test, treat, isolate, trace and mobilise their people”.

Dr Nathalie MacDermott, National Institute for Health Research academic clinical lecturer King’s College London, says: “The change of term does not alter anything practically as the world has been advised for the last few weeks to prepare for a potential pandemic, which has hopefully been taken seriously by all countries.

“The use of this term however highlights the importance of countries throughout the world working cooperatively and openly with one another and coming together as a united front in our efforts to bring this situation under control.”

People often don't understand the WHO role in public health.

 

[Segnosaur]

The reason the WHO did not recommend stopping international travel is because it's ineffective, not because they missed the boat.And this was correct! But Trump is pushing this lie because he's hiding his own mistakes while pretending his blocking certain travel from China was effective. It wasn't. He's a liar (d'uh). Don't fall for his scapegoating.

How do you think the virus got to California and Europe in multiple waves of infection?

Once again, evidence has pointed to the fact that travel restrictions are ineffective at stopping the spread of diseases like Covid-19. (At best they can slow things down, but only by a very very shot period of time. At the end of the day you still end up with the disease still spreading the way it was going to.)

The problem is that although it is sometimes called a 'travel ban', you can never completely restrict all international travel. There will still be people entering and leaving countries for various reasons. (International trade/commerce, government diplomacy, military deployments, scientific exchanges, etc.) And because you aren't testing all people entering the country, you cannot prevent something like Covid-19 from entering a country (either directly from the country of origin, or via a 3rd country). And quite often by the time a travel ban is implemented, a disease is already established in the community.

If you have even been to China, you'd know that you walk through at least 2 temperature scanners arriving AND departing. I had a friend detained in HK for a temp of 101. Is that worthless? Once one or 2 or out, then "who cares"? Global travel is of no consequence? Doesnt it all start with just one and move exponentially from there to the area it hits?

The problem is that in the case of Covid-19, there are a lot of people who are infected but show no symptoms.

 

[Sherkeu]

Once again, evidence has pointed to the fact that travel restrictions are ineffective at stopping the spread of diseases like Covid-19. (At best they can slow things down, but only by a very very shot period of time. At the end of the day you still end up with the disease still spreading the way it was going to.)

The problem is that although it is sometimes called a 'travel ban', you can never completely restrict all international travel. There will still be people entering and leaving countries for various reasons. (International trade/commerce, government diplomacy, military deployments, scientific exchanges, etc.) And because you aren't testing all people entering the country, you cannot prevent something like Covid-19 from entering a country (either directly from the country of origin, or via a 3rd country). And quite often by the time a travel ban is implemented, a disease is already established in the community.

The problem is that in the case of Covid-19, there are a lot of people who are infected but show no symptoms.

The problem with that is that where I live every week of shutdown is a billion dollars in gdp lost. Probably more.
It also has had the effect of shutting down a lot of hospital work that is normally done to keep people healthy. Nurses and doctors are on furlough.

But in better news, the parents and teachers decided to open the school next week. We can because we are private. This is a big boon to the school, at very low risk given what we know about our own close knit community and how the virus has already affected us directly. And we are aware.
Newsom can F off. He has no power here.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Park ranger was telling a crowd to social distance. Mid-speech, someone pushed him into a lake.

"How dare you force me to keep a certain distance from other people to prevent sickness and save lives! Muh rights!"

Why are people so *********** dumb.

 

[Lurch]

The problem with that is that where I live every week of shutdown is a billion dollars in gdp lost. Probably more.
It also has had the effect of shutting down a lot of hospital work that is normally done to keep people healthy. Nurses and doctors are on furlough.

But in better news, the parents and teachers decided to open the school next week. We can because we are private. This is a big boon to the school, at very low risk given what we know about our own close knit community and how the virus has already affected us directly. And we are aware.
Newsom can F off. He has no power here.

I get the picture of a commune from this. Because if your close knit community is not insular, contact with the outside world is unavoidable.

 

[The Don]

Park ranger was telling a crowd to social distance. Mid-speech, someone pushed him into a lake.

"How dare you force me to keep a certain distance from other people to prevent sickness and save lives! Muh rights!"

Why are people so *********** dumb.

Too many people in US (and in UK) society believe that their right to do X trumps everyone else's right to safety. IMO it's a societal thing, some countries have a much better defined sense of community and society which is why they are more willing to put up with higher rates of taxation in order to provide much greater levels of service which benefits society as a whole. OTOH there are other countries where the prevalent view is that people would prefer to see others do without necessary services in order that they pay a little less tax.

 

[a_unique_person]

Bush is obviously a RINO

You are way behind the curve. Trump disses Saint Ronald every time he claims to be the greatest president at everything. Everyone prior to him is a RINO, some like Lincoln just have some redeeming features, in Lincoln's case, being honest.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Not intending to single you out here...

LMAO at "someone tweeted it therefore it's credible" being a concept embraced by skeptics.

OTOH, I think it's funny that you could quote my post and then mischaracterise it as you just have.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Congresspeople are generally considered to be a step or two more credible than the average joe on the street. You know this.

I wasn't saying it was credible because a Senator said it. I said a Senator said it in response to the claim that it was an assertion made by a poster here.

I consider it credible (although I specifically noted that she could be lying) because a) I don't find it unlikely that amongst a crowd of people using a display of automatic weapons to intimidate people there are those who would use a display of a noose to intimidate people, and b) I don't find it unlikely that amongst a crowd of people invoking the racist imagery of the Confederate flag that there are those who would invoke the racist imagery of the noose.

 

[The Don]

There's probably more to this than the headline, but reportedly a security guard was killed for attempting to enforce state rules regarding mask wearing.

A woman has been charged along with her husband and son with killing a security guard who refused her daughter entry to a shop because she was not wearing a face covering.

Calvin Munerlyn, 43, was shot in the back of the head on Friday at the Family Dollar store in Flint, Michigan, one of the US states hardest hit by the pandemic.

He was attacked after telling 45-year-old Sharmel Teague's daughter she could not come into the shop without a state-mandated mask.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52540266

 

[dann]

Murray, who helps create the model from the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, told “America’s Newsroom” anchor Ed Henry why the current projection of 68,000 deaths by August will be lowered.
Closely watched coronavirus model of US deaths expected to be lowered in new projection (Fox News, April 16, 2020)

Deaths: 69,925 (Worldometers, May 5, 2020)

 

[William Parcher]

Park ranger was telling a crowd to social distance. Mid-speech, someone pushed him into a lake.

"How dare you force me to keep a certain distance from other people to prevent sickness and save lives! Muh rights!"

Why are people so *********** dumb.

That is child's play compared to what happened in Flint, Michigan. A security guard was murdered by a shot to the head because of "muh rights." The right to enter a discount store without a mask superseded the guard's right to life.

This is the story that needs to be told before you tell the one about the Park Ranger who involuntarily took a bath. When you talk about the horror of "muh rights" always lead with the story from Flint, Michigan.

 

[Horatius]

You are way behind the curve. Trump disses Saint Ronald every time he claims to be the greatest president at everything. Everyone prior to him is a RINO, some like Lincoln just have some redeeming features, in Lincoln's case, being honest.

Well of course they are, not even one of those loser RINOs voted for Trump even once. That's practically treason!

 

[William Parcher]

Park ranger was telling a crowd to social distance. Mid-speech, someone pushed him into a lake.

"How dare you force me to keep a certain distance from other people to prevent sickness and save lives! Muh rights!"

Why are people so *********** dumb.

Daily Mail: Cannabis-crazed hipster in hipster-Trump-hating city of Austin, Texas shoved a Park Ranger into a vast raging river in an attempt to fatally drown him to death. An act which has now come to be known as "Muh Rights."

 

[The Don]

Daily Mail: Cannabis-crazed hipster in hipster-Trump-hating city of Austin, Texas shoved a Park Ranger into a vast raging river in an attempt to fatally drown him to death. An act which has now come to be known as "Muh Rights."

Sounds like an oxymoron to me but then again it is Daily Mail headline

 

[lomiller]

You know what i would love to see?

A vaccine developed outside the United States, and distributed by the WHO. Given all of Trump's "America First" rhetoric, it will be fun to see Trump (or at least his supporters, since Trump has such an ego) humbled with the knowledge that other countries more amiable to the WHO get access to a vaccine while the U.S. does not.

I worry about Trump pushing though an unsafe vaccine just to satisfy his desire for self promotion. This could be catastrophic on multiple fronts, both harming people directly and harming them indirectly by strengthen anti-vax sentiment.

This is a particular risk because betacoronaviruses like COVID-19 are prone to Antibody-dependant enhancement. Multiple SARS vaccine candidates were discont9nued for this reason, and increasingly fingers are being pointed at immune response being part of the picture in turning mild COVID-19 infections deadly.

 

[Dr.Sid]

I worry about Trump pushing though an unsafe vaccine just to satisfy his desire for self promotion. This could be catastrophic on multiple fronts, both harming people directly and harming them indirectly by strengthen anti-vax sentiment.

This is a particular risk because betacoronaviruses like COVID-19 are prone to Antibody-dependant enhancement. Multiple SARS vaccine candidates were discont9nued for this reason, and increasingly fingers are being pointed at immune response being part of the picture in turning mild COVID-19 infections deadly.

Might be first time I've read phrase "fingers are being pointed" .. then I looked at your avatar ..

 

[lomiller]

Maybe the WHO has learned their lesson but they did pretty poorly at the onset of this pandemic. They encouraged to keep trade and travel going into February as China was building their huge pre-fab hospitals and then they refused to even call it a pandemic even as it appeared in 25 countries across 4 continents.

The WHO’s position based on past pandemics is that travel restrictions accomplish nothing can and make relief efforts more difficult. Eg, the US travel restrictions accomplished absolutely nothing, in fact the US is now the worlds epicenter for the virus.