The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[newyorkguy]

Is it legal to have a gun on government property in Michigan?
ETA: Maybe the guys that actually went inside the capitol building didn't have guns. I don't know.

There is a picture of them lining the viewing gallery in the chamber taken by a senator.

The image below has been widely distributed and was posted here on page 26 of this thread Thursday evening. It was posted on Twitter by Michigan state senator Dayna Polehanki as it was happening Thursday. The demonstrators are standing on a walkway overlooking the state senate chambers.

Polehanki told an interviewer yesterday:

When you have anger being stoked at the highest levels in Washington — the president is tweeting “LIBERATE MICHIGAN” — I'm not surprised this is happening...And then you started seeing the things that have become ubiquitous at these protests, which are confederate flags, swastikas, nooses, and misogynist messages. Link

 

[dann]

Nothing says freedom better than nooses and swastikas ...

 

[newyorkguy]

And the president calls them very good people. Not just good people, 'very' good people.

Related, this was reported by Newsweek last Monday. A leader of the ReOpen NC Facebook group has tested positive for Covid-19.

A leader of a Facebook group demanding that North Carolina allow businesses to reopen amid the Covid-19 pandemic has tested positive for coronavirus but is still insisting that Governor Roy Cooper's stay-at-home order be rescinded, saying it violates her right to freedom of religion. Audrey Whitlock is one of the leaders of the ReOpen NC Facebook group, which has close to 70,000 online members and has organized weekly in-person rallies demanding that the state reopen. Whitlock described herself as an "asymptomatic Covid-19 patient" in a since-deleted post to the group on Sunday morning. Regardless of her potential to infect others, she said that abiding by the governor's orders meant her rights were being violated.

"The reality is that modern society has not been able to eradicate contagious viruses. A typical public health quarantine would occur in a medical facility," Whitlock wrote, according to WNCN. "I have been told not to participate in public or private accommodations as requested by the government, and therefore denied my 1st amendment right of freedom of religion. Link

Unbelievable.

 

[varwoche]

Nothing says freedom better than nooses and swastikas ...

Indeed. Just the sort of people to cut a deal with. Very fine people.

 

[phiwum]

Nothing says freedom better than nooses and swastikas ...

Far as I have seen, the swastikas are used to suggest that Whitmer is behaving like a Nazi. Hyperbole, sure, but not the same as displaying a swastika in an approving manner.

Of course, the nooses (which I haven't seen) are unlikely to be anything but a threat. I can't come up with any other interpretation (look at me, I learned knots as a Boy Scout?).

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Far as I have seen, the swastikas are used to suggest that Whitmer is behaving like a Nazi. Hyperbole, sure, but not the same as displaying a swastika in an approving manner.

Of course, the nooses (which I haven't seen) are unlikely to be anything but a threat. I can't come up with any other interpretation (look at me, I learned knots as a Boy Scout?).

Confederate flags are also stanning for a group of people who were fighting in order to be allowed to keep slaves. I know a lot of people make a lot of excuses for the confederate flag, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to how it's not a racist symbol.

 

[pgwenthold]

Far as I have seen, the swastikas are used to suggest that Whitmer is behaving like a Nazi. Hyperbole, sure, but not the same as displaying a swastika in an approving manner.

As someone else noted, how convenient that these protesters just happen to have Nazi flags around to use. Talk about being prepared!

 

[slyjoe]

Confederate flags are also stanning for a group of people who were fighting in order to be allowed to keep slaves. I know a lot of people make a lot of excuses for the confederate flag, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to how it's not a racist symbol.

They claim they are fighting for "state's rights".

Rather ironic.

 

[lomiller]

They are proving that unlike the people who don't show up, they embody the true spirit of the people who helped in the struggle for liberty.

That is my interpretation.

My interpretation is that these are the types of people the struggle for liberty put down in the first place. The reek of the expectation they deserve special privilege and want to impose their ideas on everyone else, at gunpoint no less.

 

[Cheetah]

I'm receptive to this argument.

Here, get in line. Just be patient, your turn to be raped and killed will arrive soon enough.

 

[phiwum]

Confederate flags are also stanning for a group of people who were fighting in order to be allowed to keep slaves. I know a lot of people make a lot of excuses for the confederate flag, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to how it's not a racist symbol.

I'm certainly not defending the flying of the Confederate flag nor defending the protestors generally. I just think reference to the swastikas is misleading, since it makes it sound as if these folk are overt Nazis. I haven't seen the swastika being used in that way in these protests.

They are covert Nazis at worst. More seriously, while these are fringe right-wingers for the most part, I don't see any reason to claim they have Nazi sympathies at present.

 

[phiwum]

As someone else noted, how convenient that these protesters just happen to have Nazi flags around to use. Talk about being prepared!

Yeah, okay, if they have a Nazi flag rather than a homemade sign claiming Whitmer is a Nazi, that's obviously different.

But I think we may be conflating two or more different protests. I haven't seen those flags in the Michigan kerfluffle.

 

[Meadmaker]

Far as I have seen, the swastikas are used to suggest that Whitmer is behaving like a Nazi. Hyperbole, sure, but not the same as displaying a swastika in an approving manner.

Of course, the nooses (which I haven't seen) are unlikely to be anything but a threat. I can't come up with any other interpretation (look at me, I learned knots as a Boy Scout?).

I didn't see a noose (not that I've scrutinized the protest photos) but there was a well publicized sign saying "Tyrants get the rope."

 

[phiwum]

I didn't see a noose (not that I've scrutinized the protest photos) but there was a well publicized sign saying "Tyrants get the rope."

I haven't seen a noose either, but was taking another poster's word for it.

"Tyrants get the rope" is a stone's throw from displaying a noose.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I didn't see a noose (not that I've scrutinized the protest photos) but there was a well publicized sign saying "Tyrants get the rope."

Is that true, though? I'm having trouble thinking of any tyrants who died by hanging. The modern ones tended to get shot. The historical ones tended to get beheaded, or poisoned, or stabbed. Mussolini's corpse was hung up, but only after his execution by firing squad. The only one I can think of who was killed by hanging was Tojo, but I'm not sure he fits the definition of tyrant and also his hanging was an execution after a trial.

 

[Meadmaker]

Is that true, though? I'm having trouble thinking of any tyrants who died by hanging. The modern ones tended to get shot. The historical ones tended to get beheaded, or poisoned, or stabbed. Mussolini's corpse was hung up, but only after his execution by firing squad. The only one I can think of who was killed by hanging was Tojo, but I'm not sure he fits the definition of tyrant and also his hanging was an execution after a trial.

You expect historical accuracy from that bunch?

ETA: Saddam Hussein

 

[TragicMonkey]

You expect historical accuracy from that bunch?

ETA: Saddam Hussein

Yeah, but like Tojo that was application of the death penalty after a trial. I'm not certain that counts the same as a mob threatening to string someone up. I'll allow it, but with a footnote that even if it does count that's still a very small percentage of tyrants to die via ropes.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I'm certainly not defending the flying of the Confederate flag nor defending the protestors generally.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were.

They are covert Nazis at worst. More seriously, while these are fringe right-wingers for the most part, I don't see any reason to claim they have Nazi sympathies at present.

I would wager a small amount of money that at least some portion of this group have previously used the argument that "it was the National SOCIALIST Party! The Nazis were left-wing! It's the Democrats who are the real Nazis!"

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I haven't seen a noose either, but was taking another poster's word for it.

It was a Senator who tweeted that there were nooses. She could be lying, but I think it's credible.

I mean, hell, is holding a noose more threatening than carrying a semi-automatic weapon? I'm not convinced, although I think it's likely more overtly racist.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

My interpretation is that these are the types of people the struggle for liberty put down in the first place. The reek of the expectation they deserve special privilege and want to impose their ideas on everyone else, at gunpoint no less.

This.