The Trump Presidency: Part 21

[Dr. Keith]

Indeed. My impression is that state funded healthcare is such a big issue in the US, that that is used to map between European and US politics. I'm not sure that that works. The far left in the US seem to be straight forward Marxists to me. The project veritas recordings - was the man who spoke positively about Stalin a 1960s far right type?

It was fairly mainstream when proposed by FDR, Truman and LBJ, but sure, maybe they were all closet marxists. It's so hard to tell.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Presumably since the Republicans wanted to get this funding through they were going to make themselves available to vote on it. If not, the Democrats missed a trick there and could have made them look like fools by calling them on it.

Maybe the Dems are just trying to get a good bill out, not focusing on making the GOP look bad. Maybe.

 

[dudalb]

It's going to happen. Trump will force the country to reopen and the death count will skyrocket to the highest on the planet.
More and more I am convinced there will be no peaceful solution to this.

 

[shuttlt]

Quite a tell there. Yet another far right admirer of dishonesty.

I'm not far right. If you think I'm far right, you have an absurdly low threshold for such accusations.

I've just seen the clip. What specifically was dishonest about it, other than that they didn't think they were being interviewed by Veritas?

 

[shuttlt]

Maybe the Dems are just trying to get a good bill out, not focusing on making the GOP look bad. Maybe.

Could be. In the meantime, nobody gets any loans. They should take their time and make it a really good bill.

 

[dudalb]

Trump Tweets

LIBERATE MINNESOTA!
LIBERATE MICHIGAN!
LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!

The States have to step up their TESTING!

Trump has better be careful; some of his opponents are probably serioulsy considering buying a gun, since that seems to be where America is heading.

 

[shuttlt]

It's going to happen. Trump will force the country to reopen and the death count will skyrocket to the highest on the planet.
More and more I am convinced there will be no peaceful solution to this.

I thought Trump was an idiot because he could force the country to reopen because of the constitution?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Isn't this incitement to violence?

 

[shuttlt]

This should be good. I doubt they are going to beat Trump in a mud flinging contest, but it should be fun to watch from the sidelines.

As the old saying goes: "Never Wrestle with a Pig. You Both Get Dirty and the Pig Likes It".

 

[Stacyhs]

Quite, so they have chosen to let PPP run out to haggle for a bunch of other stuff that they want. That seems like the point that Trump should be stressing. Whether most of them are on holiday or otherwise when they have decided not to vote to approve it is kind of secondary.

Using "a bunch of other stuff" is quite a telling choice of words. More funding for hospitals, prioritizing financially disadvantaged businesses, etc is just 'a bunch of other stuff". I doubt the concept of negotiating is foreign to you. Both sides of the aisle use leverage to get things that the other side doesn't.

The Dems have not 'decided not to approve it' as you say. The do want to approve more funding for the PPP but they want additional funding for the things I listed.

Though both parties support adding money to the program, Democrats and Republicans have been unable to find a compromise on how the funds should be allocated.

Democrats demanded that in approving more money for the program, Congress should also pass more funds for hospitals and state and local governments. They want to bolster food stamp benefits and mandate some of the funds go to businesses owned by women and minorities.

Pelosi argued that Democrats were fighting for these funds to reach those most in need.

"It's not that we don't share the value of small businesses. We do. We have been their champions," Pelosi said on a conference call with reporters Thursday, calling businesses the "lifeblood of America's economy."

She said that if funds for hospitals and local governments were not approved, Republicans might not do so later down the road when they are needed. She insisted on data and evidence that the program was working, not just for larger businesses that have established relationships with banks but for smaller businesses in rural areas or owned by minorities.

"Hopefully, they will come back with something that strikes a balance," she said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...m-small-businesses-runs-out-money/5142711002/

Presumably since the Republicans wanted to get this funding through they were going to make themselves available to vote on it. If not, the Democrats missed a trick there and could have made them look like fools by calling them on it.

Perhaps the Dems are occupied with matters other than making the GOP look like fools.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I know I am repeating but

LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!

This is from the President!

 

[Mader Levap]

I'm not far right. If you think I'm far right, you have an absurdly low threshold for such accusations.

Says person that calls everyone on left from him "Marxists". Hilarious irony here.

I understand. The Democrats are making small businesses suffer to try to get some money allocated to other areas. It's your basic hostage situation.

Republicans are making hospitals (and "other bunch of stuff") suffer to try to get some money allocated to other areas.

See, I can play that BS game too.

 

[shuttlt]

Using "a bunch of other stuff" is quite a telling choice of words. More funding for hospitals, prioritizing financially disadvantaged businesses, etc is just 'a bunch of other stuff". I doubt the concept of negotiating is foreign to you. Both sides of the aisle use leverage to get things that the other side doesn't.

I understand. The Democrats are making small businesses suffer to try to get some money allocated to other areas. It's your basic hostage situation.

The Dems have not 'decided not to approve it' as you say. The do want to approve more funding for the PPP but they want additional funding for the things I listed.

So, hey haven't decided not to approve it. They've just decided that for the moment it isn't going to get approved?

Perhaps the Dems are occupied with matters other than making the GOP look like fools.

I hope so.

Incidentally, at the risk of asking a question I don't know the answer to, had the Republicans already rejected the funding the Democrats are now asking for, or is the current hostage situation pre-emptive?

 

[abaddon]

I disagree.

Disagree all you like. You are simply wrong. All us europeans are "Marxists" according to you.

No, we simply give a damn about our own citizens unlike america which cannot be bothered to provide basic healthcare to it's own people, never mind the current crisis.

The USA claims to have the best healthcare in the world. If one has enough money.

Here, everyone gets healthcare regardless of wealth.

And you, somehow, think that is wrong.

Those are some really strong christian values you are supporting.

 

[shuttlt]

Says person that calls everyone on left from him "Marxists". Hilarious irony here.

No, I certainly don't do that. There are lots of people to the left of me who aren't Marxists. I used to be to the left of me and wasn't a Marxist. It's a relatively specific thing, even if you broaden it to include cultural Marxism.

You guys just have a huge confirmation bias and lack of skepticism.

 

[Stacyhs]

I thought Trump was an idiot because he could force the country to reopen because of the constitution?

Trump is an idiot because he claimed he could force the country to reopen.

He cannot do so but it is certainly not impossible...or even improbable...that some Republican governors may feel pressure from Trump to reopen sooner than they think they should. Ron DeSantis comes to mind.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I understand. The Democrats are making small businesses suffer to try to get some money allocated to other areas. It's your basic hostage situation.





So, hey haven't decided not to approve it. They've just decided that for the moment it isn't going to get approved?





I hope so.



Incidentally, at the risk of asking a question I don't know the answer to, had the Republicans already rejected the funding the Democrats are now asking for, or is the current hostage situation pre-emptive?

This is all nice framing and all.

It could also be said Republicans are holding it hostage in the name of shirking oversight and more lining of fat cat pockets the first round of PPP fueled.

If the first try didn't help the people it was supposed to, why is doing it again the default "good" thing that is deemed wrong to oppose?

Besides, this is all cover for yet another goalpost shift.

There's a difference between the kind of "dereliction of duty" that is suggested by the "come back from vacation" attack versus actively participating in crafting the bill, but with different goals.

 

[Stacyhs]

I'm not far right. If you think I'm far right, you have an absurdly low threshold for such accusations.

Perhaps you'd care to let us know your position on basic GOP supported issues so we can better understand where you are in the political spectrum?

More easily, what do you like about Trump and what do you dislike? That will give us a pretty good idea.

 

[shuttlt]

Disagree all you like. You are simply wrong. All us europeans are "Marxists" according to you.

You are laughably wrong.

No, we simply give a damn about our own citizens unlike america which cannot be bothered to provide basic healthcare to it's own people, never mind the current crisis.

Your lack of empathy or understanding of people with a different world view to you is disappointing.

The USA claims to have the best healthcare in the world. If one has enough money.

Sure. You have to throttle demand somehow. You either do it with money, or with queues and refusing expensive treatments. My mother has hardly been able to walk for years because the value for money calculations mean they won't operate. That's what you get in a socialised system. Then, if you are lucky you crowdfund and go to the US for treatment. Bad things happen in all systems.

Here, everyone gets healthcare regardless of wealth.

Sure, everybody gets some healthcare.

And you, somehow, think that is wrong.

If it works for you, good for you.

Those are some really strong christian values you are supporting.

I'm not a Christian. I don't see that it is necessarily un-Christian to prefer different solutions to you.

 

[Stacyhs]

I understand. The Democrats are making small businesses suffer to try to get some money allocated to other areas. It's your basic hostage situation.

Once again, your choice of words is very revealing. Here is what Pelosi says:

“Democrats know that in order for the Paycheck Protection Program to succeed, it must work for everyone. That is why we have been asking for the Administration to work with us to help:
•the underbanked small businesses and others who are struggling to access the PPP;
•desperate state and local governments;
•hospitals on the front lines of the epidemic.

“As has been clear since last week, Republicans’ bill which fails to address these critical issues cannot get unanimous consent in the House.”

So, they haven't decided not to approve it. They've just decided that for the moment it isn't going to get approved?

Perhaps it's the Republicans who have decided it isn't going to get approved unless they get everything their way?

I hope so.

Incidentally, at the risk of asking a question I don't know the answer to, had the Republicans already rejected the funding the Democrats are now asking for, or is the current hostage situation pre-emptive?

Last week, Senate Republicans attempted to pass a measure that would provide the additional $250 billion for the program, but Democrats objected and offered a competing bill, which Republicans rejected.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...m-small-businesses-runs-out-money/5142711002/