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The Trump Presidency: Part 20

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Horatius said:
While there are problems with the existing treaties, unilaterally rejecting all of the treaties is just as stupid. Will he reject the Law of the Sea next?[
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Shhhhh! He might be reading this forum and get ideas about BWHAHAHAHAHA

I thought I could tell the whole joke with a straight face, but it was too much for me.
 
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TrumanHW said:
Is there a
His opponents are SO irrational that it's been easy for him to do things that're 'common sense' ...
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Like a wall. What could be more common sense than a wall? Even though tunnels and ladders have been used for decades in parts of the US-Mexico borde, and even though current estimates by the US government said that the majority of illegal immigrants entering the country in 2019 entered legally with a visa and then stayed when the visa expired, the wall is a common sense.


Yet, no matter what he does, the media first operates off the premise that Trump's omniscient ... and even though they also presume him to be perfectly incompetent and malevolent.
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What a bizarre claim. Can you give an example of a Trump criticism that argues from the position that he was omnipotent?



For all the reasonable things there have been to criticize him over, they've made so many things up, and then assumed the most absurd claims that...before I can criticize him, I first have to argue the absurdity of the aforementioned allegations.
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Many posters asked for a list. Feel free to chose the list that is shorter: either the things he can be reasonably critiqued for or the things he cannot be reasonably critiqued for.


The important part

Please notice that no one swore at you.
No one accused you of hating the US or of trying to destroy the US.
No one called for you to be suspended or banned.
No one responded irrationally with caps lock.
No one questioned your sanity.
No one engaged in what-about-ism.

If you know a pro-Trump board where Trump-critics will be treated that way, many of us would go there and discuss specific issues.​
 
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turingtest said:
To those "Bernie people"-

If you ever want to see (for example) universal health care coverage (or at least within your lifetimes)- no, you really shouldn't. Will you get it under Biden? No, most likely not; but you might at least get a reasonable approach to it. With the Republicans, especially under Trump, what you will get is at least two (possibly more) Supreme Court justices who will, when you do finally get someone like Bernie down the road who tries to implement some sort of UHC, join the Kavanaugh-led majority to throw it out; those guys are there for life, and Trump will certainly pick judges who will be young enough that that will mean your lives as well.

So, there you go, it's your choice. You can throw a tantrum and piss away your own ideals, or you can grow up a little and realize that you can't always get what you want right when you want it. I mean, surely you're not under any illusion that Trump will deliver on Bernie's promises, are you? The man won't even deliver on his own.
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Aridas said:
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I'm... not quite going to hop on the bandwagon here. Instead, I think that this is somewhat annoying preaching to the choir. While Bernie supporters are less likely to vote blue no matter who than Warren and Biden supporters, the overwhelming majority have made it pretty clear that they'll be voting blue no matter who, even if Biden is an unpleasant choice (an opinion that I share, for the record). It's also worth noting that some of those Bernie people are officially Republicans anyways. So, with that in mind, I think that it's worth pointing out that, unqualified as this is, it's more likely to do more to drive a wedge than it does to help unite.

...
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Do you, now? And I think this is somewhat condescending ********. There are at least four posters on this board who have implied, when they haven't outright stated, that anyone who supports Biden is as bad as anyone who support Trump; one of those guys has said that voting for Trump in preference to Biden is the way to go, to sort of "bern the village in order to save it." The wedge is already there; the holier-than-thou brigade isn't interested in bridging it any more than the Trumpistas are. It's folks like that who were responsible, at least in part, through either apathy or downright childish petulance, for Trump's victory in 2016, and the same mindset this year is liable to have the same result. So, TBH, I'm not really interested in pandering to folks who think the whole problem is that everyone isn't as pure in political morals as they are- they're gonna do what they're gonna do, they're no more amenable to reason than Trump acolytes, and they need to have it pointed out to them as forcefully as possible that they're shooting themselves in the feet to spite their own faces (h/t wareyin, slightly edited); which wouldn't be so bad if they weren't also shooting other folks' feet as well.
 
turingtest said:
To those "Bernie people"-

If you ever want to see (for example) universal health care coverage (or at least within your lifetimes)- no, you really shouldn't. Will you get it under Biden? No, most likely not; but you might at least get a reasonable approach to it. With the Republicans, especially under Trump, what you will get is at least two (possibly more) Supreme Court justices who will, when you do finally get someone like Bernie down the road who tries to implement some sort of UHC, join the Kavanaugh-led majority to throw it out; those guys are there for life, and Trump will certainly pick judges who will be young enough that that will mean your lives as well.

So, there you go, it's your choice. You can throw a tantrum and piss away your own ideals, or you can grow up a little and realize that you can't always get what you want right when you want it. I mean, surely you're not under any illusion that Trump will deliver on Bernie's promises, are you? The man won't even deliver on his own.
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It's pretty striking that this is pretty much the same argument that Trump people made to skeptical conservatives in 2016. The SCOTUS argument really is the plea of last resort when it comes to unappealing candidates.

I have to admit, it is pretty compelling. I have no optimism about any policies arising from a Biden administration, but it seems exceedingly likely that the next president will be replacing RGB and maybe more justices, assuming she doesn't give up the ghost before then.

The only caveat here is that the right has been far more effective in politicizing the SCOTUS. It's been a multiple decade effort to pack the courts with Federalist society hacks and train their electorate to respond to such pleas. I'm not sure if a similar argument will be as effective for waffling Democratic voters, even though the necessity of seizing judicial power is quite clear.
 
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TrumanHW said:
Of 593,000 interracial violent felonies between blacks & whites
535,000 of them were blacks attacking whites ...

and that's doesn't factor the relative population sizes: That blacks account for only 13% of the US population vs. 65% which are whites. A ratio of exactly 500%.
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You don't like to cite things so I went and found this

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

This is the FBI homicide data from 2016
Black murderer-white victim 533
White murderer black victim 243.

So 69% rather than your 90% number. Also, not modeling for any other factor!
 
SezMe said:
Hear! Hear!

I share the same frustration. I hope everyone gives at least some indication of where they live. It doesn't have to be GPS coordinates.
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I tried, but so far have had no luck finding where to enter my location in my profile...
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
It's pretty striking that this is pretty much the same argument that Trump people made to skeptical conservatives in 2016. The SCOTUS argument really is the plea of last resort when it comes to unappealing candidates.
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Unappealing candidates? Trump has the enthusiastic support of something like 95% of his party. One reason they support him so much? He did stock the SCOTUS with 2 unqualified far right Justices, one who openly bragged about being partisan in the hearings!

SuburbanTurkey said:
I have to admit, it is pretty compelling. I have no optimism about any policies arising from a Biden administration, but it seems exceedingly likely that the next president will be replacing RGB and maybe more justices, assuming she doesn't give up the ghost before then.

The only caveat here is that the right has been far more effective in politicizing the SCOTUS. It's been a multiple decade effort to pack the courts with Federalist society hacks and train their electorate to respond to such pleas. I'm not sure if a similar argument will be as effective for waffling Democratic voters, even though the necessity of seizing judicial power is quite clear.
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All the more reason we should be doing everything we can to prevent the right from another 4 years of packing the courts!
 
wareyin said:
All the more reason we should be doing everything we can to prevent the right from another 4 years of packing the courts!
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The people that voted for Biden should be out there canvassing and volunteering hard. He's their guy, they should make it happen.

To me, Biden is the lesser of two evils. I'm not the person to be out there canvassing for him, because I don't like him. My time is better spent on other endeavors.

I'm going to stop engaging in these political threads about Biden. There's really nothing new here. He's the candidate, he sucks (IMO), and he's not as bad as Trump. I'll watch the general election with pessimistic disinterest.

I hope everything Biden supporters are predicting is true and he stomps Trump. I really do.
 
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Regnad Kcin said:
There is almost too much in your post to take apart. Because I'm short on time at the moment, and because others will undoubtedly jump in, I'll be content to observe.

Nevertheless, welcome to the forum.
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He's been a member for 8 years. He made 13 posts to a 9/11 thread in October 2012. This is his first post since.
 
A Republican organization called Mom's landline yesterday with a single-question survey: Do you think the mainstream media's coverage of Trump's COVID-19 performance has been fair and accurate? (IIRC). I said yes. If they were calling for Mom, probably the same result but I am a registered Republican.

I mean, I think there is some "look what a terrible job Trump is doing" pandering in the media. But he's done objectively terrible things. Lying about the availability of tests, possibly profiteering, playing politics with parceling out medical supplies, contradicting the most up-to-date information from his medical experts, yes, I think his response has been thoroughly unhelpful and that's putting it kindly. So overall, I think the coverage is fair. All he had to do was stick to a message of cautious optimism tinged with somber reflection but every day it's a new can of worms. Nobody has to make anything up.

I passed on chloroquine when I was sent to Panama 15 years ago for 2.5 weeks. IIRC it was because there was a chance for an actual psychotic break from the stuff. The other option was to stay out of Darien province and use mosquito repellant. I didn't want to risk going nuts in a foreign country if I could help it and the malaria risk in most of the country was considered low. Marinating in 99 percent DEET wasn't necessarily the healthiest thing to do either but those were my choices. If we're talking about the same drug, and I think it is, the consensus was not to take it if other measures were adequate.

Whenever I think about what it would take to seriously undermine Trump's popularity with supporters I keep coming back to the fact that he's a crappy boss. It's something a lot of people can identify with - a boss who overrules you capriciously, takes credit for your achievements, plays favorites, castigates you in front of coworkers, changes his mind from minute to minute, all the things bad bosses do that undermine morale. I think that much should be obvious.
 
Trebuchet said:
Pence's office has banned government experts (Birx, Fauci, et al) from appearing on CNN unless the network shows Trump's entire afternoon dog-and-pony show every day.
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After Trump leaves the podium, CNN frequently cuts out of the White House briefing to discuss and fact-check what the President had said. A CNN executive said that the network usually returns to such programming because of the extensive length of the full briefing that includes Pence, which can run in excess of two hours.
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THAT is what they don't want. Can't have Trump's lies exposed.
 
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