The Trump Presidency: Part 20

[Mumbles]

I’m not sure if the argument behind your sarcasm is that the Trump administration is doing the best that can be done or that the Hillary Clinton administration would be equally inept.

Any chance you’ll clarify your position with evidence to back it up?

I feel very safe saying that she would be vastly better.

Also, Jeb Bush, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, Bernie Sanders, Mark O'Malley, and likely a few others.

This is because Dolt 45 is a remarkably inept, self-centered, and bigoted little sewer rat. But some people thought that at least one of those attributes would be good in a president (my base assumption is the bigotry - this is the same party that's spent the past decade openly fighting against the rights of others, after all).

Hopefully each of these families will have at least one family who will suffer badly under this, as it seems to be the only way they learn. I don't mean "dead", although I'm sure that's already happened to some such families, but I do mean, *suffer mightily*.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Reporter calls Trump out TO HIS FACE for re-opening country to help in election


At about :55 he starts bashing Paula Reed and other fake news reporters, then brags that no other administration has done the job they've done (I agree!) and then says it's lucky that we have them for this problem OR WE WOULDN'T HAVE A COUNTRY LEFT.

Nah, he's not nuts.

Last comment by the commenter, "all Trump cares about is politics". No, all Trump cares about is Trump.

 

[Aridas]

I feel very safe saying that she would be vastly better.

Also, Jeb Bush, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, Bernie Sanders, Mark O'Malley, and likely a few others.

Ted Cruz would be the only one of the main Republican candidates that I wouldn't assume to be clearly better than Trump, for that matter... and I still think that he would be better.

To poke at other things...

Update on the Cease and desist letter story.

The Trump campaign is actually threatening to revoke the broadcast licenses of any television station that airs the ad. That's a fascist strongman's solution to pesky critics who dare to speak out. According to a report in Bloomberg News, Trump's campaign warned that...

"Failure to remove the ad 'could put your station’s license in jeopardy' before the Federal Communications Commission, the campaign said in the letter. 'Your station has an obligation to cease and desist from airing it immediately to comply with FCC licensing requirements.'"

No. They absolutely do not have an obligation to cease and desist - and the very fact that the Trump campaign is threatening the station's licenses is deeply problematic. Furthermore, if there's any teeth at all to the threat, it's deeply corrupt and a major threat to the US' continued survival that needs to be stomped out viciously and immediately. Even the very threat of it deserves a very painful and substantial rebuke, as far as I'm concerned, given the nature of the threat.

In better news, let's all congratulate Chuck Schumer for preventing Trump from getting bailout funds. Looks like Schumer's the one to add in the provision that severely hampers efforts to siphon off funds for the corrupt personal financial gain of powerful government officials.

Next... Looks like we've got another... incredible Trump quote to work with.

“some people don’t even recover, they’re incredible people”

*facepalm*

Next... Well, looks like PPE has already pretty well run out now in at least one NY hospital, where they are apparently using trash bags as a substitute. At least one nurse there is now dead, albeit of an infection that happened well before they were reduced to that state.

 

[Meadmaker]

From the supposed to be not so political thread:

Oh.... ok. Lets play that BS!

When did Cuomo ban tourism in NYC? huh....

And if it was 'totally predictable and largely believed to be just around the corner' then how do you explain the total lack of preparedness of Cuomo and De Blasio?

TOTAL BS!

On the very first day that a case was announced in Michigan, Governor Whittmer had the executive orders lined up to do what she could do. She doesn't have the powers of a President, but she was ready, and she informed us that preparations were underway and had been for weeks, but now they would be put into place.

Watching the announcement, I was thinking, "Why can't she be President instead of Trump?"

ETA: I must confess, I have to wonder why other polticians were not shouting it from the rooftops, but a couple of explanations come to mind. First, had they done so before cases actually started in their states, they would have been called alarmists. Second, they didn't have the data the President had. They could only make inferences from media reports, so while they thought this might look bad, they couldn't be absolutely sure. They didn't have the resources of the intel agencies, and the CDC, and the entire government to draw on. But they could see that this was coming, and it was bad.

 

[Meadmaker]

I will elaborate just a little.

Look at all the things Trump has done in the last three weeks that people who like him are praising. Some of them are indeed praiseworthy. At least, the are good things to do, although I think darned near anyone with simple management skills and experience could have done them, but at least he did them.


Of all of those things, is there any of them that could not have been done six weeks ago?

Is there anything among those things that could not have been foreseen six weeks ago.?

 

[Kings Full]

From the supposed to be not so political thread:



On the very first day that a case was announced in Michigan, Governor Whittmer had the executive orders lined up to do what she could do. She doesn't have the powers of a President, but she was ready, and she informed us that preparations were underway and had been for weeks, but now they would be put into place.

Watching the announcement, I was thinking, "Why can't she be President instead of Trump?"

ETA: I must confess, I have to wonder why other polticians were not shouting it from the rooftops, but a couple of explanations come to mind. First, had they done so before cases actually started in their states, they would have been called alarmists. Second, they didn't have the data the President had. They could only make inferences from media reports, so while they thought this might look bad, they couldn't be absolutely sure. They didn't have the resources of the intel agencies, and the CDC, and the entire government to draw on. But they could see that this was coming, and it was bad.

Let me start by thanking you for editing your post in the 'other' thread. I appreciate that.

What I'm about to say is not directed at you. There are some, two in particular, in the other thread that just can't make a post without it being political.

My personal belief is that there is plenty of blame to go around among politicians of all stripes. If we're going to blame one then we have to blame them all imo. I have no intention of joining those goose stepping down the street with my hair on fire screaming Trump Trump Trump. If that makes me an apologist then so be it. I'll wear it with pride.

I am not a Trump supporter but I do have a sense of fair play and know the difference between biased BS and a reasonable critique.

Hopefully those that wish to express their political views will do so in this thread and leave the other for discussion of the pandemic.

 

[Meadmaker]

Let me start by thanking you for editing your post in the 'other' thread. I appreciate that.

What I'm about to say is not directed at you. There are some, two in particular, in the other thread that just can't make a post without it being political.

My personal belief is that there is plenty of blame to go around among politicians of all stripes. If we're going to blame one then we have to blame them all imo. I have no intention of joining those goose stepping down the street with my hair on fire screaming Trump Trump Trump. If that makes me an apologist then so be it. I'll wear it with pride.

I am not a Trump supporter but I do have a sense of fair play and know the difference between biased BS and a reasonable critique.

Hopefully those that wish to express their political views will do so in this thread and leave the other for discussion of the pandemic.

I'm frequently called a Trump apologist on these forums, because I've consistently said that the left was overstating just how awful he was.

And what's wrong with that? It's a "boy who cried wolf" thing. They've been talking about how awful he is for so long that now they're screaming it again, and people aren't listening.

But this time? He really is awful. Not just a little bit awful, and not on some trivial nonsense about whether he really meant that off the cuff remark that he said at the press conference.

In this case, he fiddled, not necessarily as America burned, but at the very least as pyre was being built and the match was being lit. He demonstrated incompetence at every turn, and it seems he continues to do so.

Tonight, he expressed that he "just felt" that they wouldn't need so many ventilators.

To Hell with that trash. Since at least the beginning of February, this should have been top on his plate, and by now, he shouldn't be "just feeling" anything. He should know. The fact that he doesn't is a disgrace.

 

[Kings Full]

I'm frequently called a Trump apologist on these forums, because I've consistently said that the left was overstating just how awful he was.

And what's wrong with that? It's a "boy who cried wolf" thing. They've been talking about how awful he is for so long that now they're screaming it again, and people aren't listening.

But this time? He really is awful. Not just a little bit awful, and not on some trivial nonsense about whether he really meant that off the cuff remark that he said at the press conference.

In this case, he fiddled, not necessarily as America burned, but at the very least as pyre was being built and the match was being lit. He demonstrated incompetence at every turn, and it seems he continues to do so.

Tonight, he expressed that he "just felt" that they wouldn't need so many ventilators.

To Hell with that trash. Since at least the beginning of February, this should have been top on his plate, and by now, he shouldn't be "just feeling" anything. He should know. The fact that he doesn't is a disgrace.

Here's the thing though, Trump has always made everything about him. When he says he 'just felt' something he's almost certainly getting that 'feeling' from advisors.

There hasn't been one single documented case of anyone needing a ventilator and one not being available. That may, and probably will, change. But 30 to 40K? Even I think that's a high number. Remember that the patient either recovers or dies thus freeing up a ventilator for someone else. I don't think anyone actually believes Cuomo in this case but none will say so because "Trump".


I do wish Trump would phrase things differently, but he doesn't and he never has and he's not going to change now.

 

[The Don]

Here's the thing though, Trump has always made everything about him. When he says he 'just felt' something he's almost certainly getting that 'feeling' from advisors.

There hasn't been one single documented case of anyone needing a ventilator and one not being available. That may, and probably will, change. But 30 to 40K? Even I think that's a high number. Remember that the patient either recovers or dies thus freeing up a ventilator for someone else. I don't think anyone actually believes Cuomo in this case but none will say so because "Trump".


I do wish Trump would phrase things differently, but he doesn't and he never has and he's not going to change now.

The population of New York State is 20 million - give or take.

The expectation is that 60%-70% of people will contract Covid-19 and that around 10% of those who contract Covid-19 will require critical care (or at least those are the sorts of numbers that other countries are seeing).

Based on that there'll be more than 1 million people in New York state who will require critical care, around 10% of those who require critical care will die.

Whether they get better or die, the experience so far is that each person requires 15-20 days of critical care - around 15 - 20 million critical care days in total.

Covid-19 will take months to run its course but it doesn't seem unreasonable that 30-40,000 ventilators would be required.

 

[Kings Full]

The population of New York State is 20 million - give or take.

The expectation is that 60%-70% of people will contract Covid-19 and that around 10% of those who contract Covid-19 will require critical care (or at least those are the sorts of numbers that other countries are seeing).

Based on that there'll be more than 1 million people in New York state who will require critical care, around 10% of those who require critical care will die.

Whether they get better or die, the experience so far is that each person requires 15-20 days of critical care - around 15 - 20 million critical care days in total.

Covid-19 will take months to run its course but it doesn't seem unreasonable that 30-40,000 ventilators would be required.

Do you have a source that shows during the 15-20 days of critical care they will need a ventilator the entire time?

I'm at a loss to explain why they haven't run out of ventilators just yet given that NY has the largest number of infected people. ~ 40% of all US infections.

If in fact they will need 30 to 40K ventilators they certainly don't need them in one shipment by tomorrow. And Cuomo knows that.

There are other devices that can be used as well, such as CPAP.

 

[a_unique_person]

CPAP doesn't deliver oxygen.

 

[The Don]

Do you have a source that shows during the 15-20 days of critical care they will need a ventilator the entire time?

No, but I haven't made that assumption at all.

If ventilators were required for all patients and for the whole time then if the Covid-19 outbreak were to take 6 months to run its course in New York State, 100,000 ventilators would be required.

I'm at a loss to explain why they haven't run out of ventilators just yet given that NY has the largest number of infected people. ~ 40% of all US infections.

It's true that New York currently has the largest number of infected people but at 30k-40k it's less than 0.5% of the anticipated total number - if the 60% infection rate is right and the current numbers are in any way accurate.

New York state is only at the very beginning of the epidemic and they're already running out.

If in fact they will need 30 to 40K ventilators they certainly don't need them in one shipment by tomorrow. And Cuomo knows that.

It depends on how quickly the virus spreads and how quickly the number of critical care cases escalates. If New York continues to double every 3 days (slightly slower than the current rate) then in two weeks there'll be 1 million cases and 100,000 people requiring critical care.

Those ventilators may not be required tomorrow, but the timescale is days rather than weeks or months.

There are other devices that can be used as well, such as CPAP.

Yes they can be used for less severe cases, but we're not talking about those here. They also require constant monitoring so what you might gain in ventilator availability, you lose in tying up medics.

Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP), auto-CPAP, and bilevel positive airway pressure (BiPAP or BPAP) machines typically used for treatment of sleep apnea (either in the home or facility setting) may be used to support patients with respiratory insufficiency provided appropriate monitoring (as available) and patient condition.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...ation-strategies-letter-health-care-providers

 

[Lurch]

Here's the thing though, Trump has always made everything about him. When he says he 'just felt' something he's almost certainly getting that 'feeling' from advisors.

There hasn't been one single documented case of anyone needing a ventilator and one not being available. That may, and probably will, change. But 30 to 40K? Even I think that's a high number. Remember that the patient either recovers or dies thus freeing up a ventilator for someone else. I don't think anyone actually believes Cuomo in this case but none will say so because "Trump".


I do wish Trump would phrase things differently, but he doesn't and he never has and he's not going to change now.

That last statement encapsulates why he must be turfed out of office. In more detail: He's selfish, ignorant, actively impervious to learning, and surrounds himself with yes-men, the spineless and opportunists.

This is a leader of a great nation that arrived at her status via the cooperative pooling of brainpower? This one sad specimen is going to retain, or ideally advance, that greatness? The world look on in mounting horror and despair at this modern day Nero.

 

[calebprime]

It was reported (from doctors) on CNN that some patients need respirators for 30 days or more.

I don't have a number, but this isn't rare.

 

[Kings Full]

No, but I haven't made that assumption at all.

If ventilators were required for all patients and for the whole time then if the Covid-19 outbreak were to take 6 months to run its course in New York State, 100,000 ventilators would be required.



It's true that New York currently has the largest number of infected people but at 30k-40k it's less than 0.5% of the anticipated total number - if the 60% infection rate is right and the current numbers are in any way accurate.

New York state is only at the very beginning of the epidemic and they're already running out.



It depends on how quickly the virus spreads and how quickly the number of critical care cases escalates. If New York continues to double every 3 days (slightly slower than the current rate) then in two weeks there'll be 1 million cases and 100,000 people requiring critical care.

Those ventilators may not be required tomorrow, but the timescale is days rather than weeks or months.



Yes they can be used for less severe cases, but we're not talking about those here. They also require constant monitoring so what you might gain in ventilator availability, you lose in tying up medics.



https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...ation-strategies-letter-health-care-providers

Ok, and this leads me back to my initial post here that came from the main Covid-19 thread.

Why is there no criticism of Cuomo? It seems clear from your post, if we're going to accept your numbers, that he and the state of NY were totally blindsided by this pandemic. One that some will tell you was clear for all to see.

If there is blame for Trump's response then there should be an equal amount of blame for Cuomo. Cuomo is responsible for NY's response to this. It was his job to get the necessary equipment. The federal government can and should assist. Assist, not do it all.

That's really my only point.

 

[The Don]

Ok, and this leads me back to my initial post here that came from the main Covid-19 thread.

Why is there no criticism of Cuomo? It seems clear from your post, if we're going to accept your numbers, that he and the state of NY were totally blindsided by this pandemic. One that some will tell you was clear for all to see.

If there is blame for Trump's response then there should be an equal amount of blame for Cuomo. Cuomo is responsible for NY's response to this. It was his job to get the necessary equipment. The federal government can and should assist. Assist, not do it all.

That's really my only point.

This is exactly the approach I expected from the Trump apologists, blame the state officials for any and all negative consequences.

As I understand it, Cuomo has taken reasonable steps, within his powers, to protect people in New York whether it's the quarantining instructions, the rollout of testing (which may in part explain why New York's numbers are so high) and attempting to secure more ventilators.

Remember, it's not so long ago that the President was saying that the numbers would soon be zero. With that in mind, why would anyone preemptively order thousands of ventilators ?

 

[Kings Full]

This is exactly the approach I expected from the Trump apologists, blame the state officials for any and all negative consequences.

As I understand it, Cuomo has taken reasonable steps, within his powers, to protect people in New York whether it's the quarantining instructions, the rollout of testing (which may in part explain why New York's numbers are so high) and attempting to secure more ventilators.

Remember, it's not so long ago that the President was saying that the numbers would soon be zero. With that in mind, why would anyone preemptively order thousands of ventilators ?

:sigh:

I made it clear that there's blame to go around. But instead you call me an apologist while you excuse Cuomo's response and blame it on Trump.

 

[calebprime]

I've seen every Cuomo conference, most of the Trump conferences. I've followed Trump's remarks. The list of his public statements has been reprinted multiple times on this forum.

Cuomo doesn't get credit for being way ahead. Rather, when the situation was clear, he began to act appropriately.

His state has to bid against other states for dwindling supplies. That's one of the simple reasons why this isn't a state-by-state problem.

 

[Kings Full]

I've seen every Cuomo conference, most of the Trump conferences. I've followed Trump's remarks. The list of his public statements has been reprinted multiple times on this forum.

Cuomo doesn't get credit for being way ahead. Rather, when the situation was clear, he began to act appropriately.

His state has to bid against other states for dwindling supplies. That's one of the simple reasons why this isn't a state-by-state problem.

And I've never said it was a state by state problem. EVER!

But don't say that Trump should have seen this or that he isn't doing anything all while you excuse the state governors for their exact lack of foresight / response.

The states, all of them, do have a responsibility here.

Is it really that hard to comprehend?

 

[calebprime]

It's hard to comprehend why you would say that, yes. You are insisting on an irrelevant and stupid point.