The Trump Presidency: Part 20

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BobTheCoward said:
That has nothing to do with the question at hand. Even if Trump thought it was absolutely a hoax, the ad could still be false.
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I firmly disagree with your line of argument. Still, the problem here might be that, for the sake of your argument, you seem to be letting Trump's lawyer redefine what the ad said and implied, rather than letting the makers and context have any sway there.
 
Aridas said:
I firmly disagree with your line of argument. Still, the problem here might be that, for the sake of your argument, you seem to be letting Trump's lawyer redefine what the ad said and implied, rather than letting the makers and context have any sway there.
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I have to wonder if he even watched the ad himself.
 
newyorkguy said:
I always wonder about Trump. What's he really think? He talks about going by his "gut." What would his gut be telling him now?

That being president is working out the same way as the football league, the airline, the casinos? Good start, many people praising him, everything seems great and then...everything goes down the tubes. Isn't that the story of his life? Wouldn't his gut being telling him that? That's what my gut is telling me. ;)
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You've seen the pattern.

First he ignored the crisis, imagined it would go away.

Then he imagined the single action he took was fantastic, that would fix it, all will hail King Trump.

The problem starts to show and the press gets louder.

Trump blames them, their fear mongering is the problem, Trump fixed the problem. The press wants Trump to lose the election.

Fast forward and suddenly Trump is on top of it. He gives his speech to the country. Now the action he took delayed the crisis, no mention that no one did anything during this delay but he saved thousands of lives.

Trump continues blaming others and the blaming gets louder. It's China's fault for the delay, again, no mention of swift action Trump didn't take once China reported the epidemic except for his magical order to keep Chinese out. This action has now grown to be something no other POTUS would have done (he's got that right), that he was called a racist, but look how smart he was and he saved tens of thousands of lives. All hail his greatness. Spread the word it's the Chinese and the press that wants him to lose the election.

Things get worse. Besides repeating the above fantasy, he blames Obama claiming he was left with a broken out of date system. And the pandemic action committee he dismissed couldn't of helped because it was out of date and didn't prepare for this pandemic. No one could have predicted this. Of course in revised history, Trump called it a pandemic long before anyone else....


This is all predictable Trump. Now the economic collapse is the result of the Democrats trying to make him lose the election.

He's come full circle to ignoring the seriousness of the problem, imagining a magical cure like chloroquine that he alone recognized. In his fantasy it will be over by Easter and all will hail King Trump.

Wouldn't his gut being telling him that?
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Only briefly and I'm sure he has moments of sheer panic. But that is quickly replaced with, it's all about people out to get him and it will magically be over by Easter. All hail King Trump.

There is no doubt he simply blames other people for his business failures. After all he's still sucking the money in, money laundering is lucrative. The Russians are bankrolling his golf courses. The Apprentice was the most popular show in the world ever.
 
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dudalb said:
....
BTW all through his career Trump has used cease and desists and threats of legal action to bully people.
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I picture him demanding his lawyers act, they roll their eyes and file whatever.

Trump imagines he can stop the ad. He imagines getting even.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I have no opinion on what the does or does not imply and I don't care if Trump's lawyers are right or wrong.
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Which is tangential to what I said. Still, with this response, you've made clear that this particular line of discussion can safely be ended, given that the lawyer's argument was about the implied.

Skeptic Ginger said:
I picture him demanding his lawyers act, they roll their eyes and file whatever.

Trump imagines he can stop the ad. He imagines getting even.
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I'm not so sure that he believes that he can stop the ad. Rather, the action and "logic" itself lends itself to an alternative narrative that those who support him will be much more likely to bite on and run with.
 
Aridas said:
Which is tangential to what I said. Still, with this response, you've made clear that this particular line of discussion can safely be ended, given that the lawyer's argument was about the implied.
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You said I was letting Trump's lawyers define it. I'm only pointing out that is true to the extent I'm indifferent to if their claim is true or not. Im interested in dissecting the claim itself.
 
Good afternoon. Trying to use President Trumps words against him is a silly distraction. He speaks in "horoscope speak" In the same sentence he says up is down, black is white, this can be bad or it can be good. Usually he prefaces that by saying "They say " or "Someone says". He makes no claims of his own. By his own useless words, he takes no responsibility for anything.
We get the President we deserve and enough Americans felt that the job of President was an entry level position.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
You said I was letting Trump's lawyers define it.
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Given how you've responded? Yes.

BobTheCoward said:
I'm only pointing out that is true to the extent I'm indifferent to if their claim is true or not. Im interested in dissecting the claim itself.
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Which has been done well past a reasonable extent already. Here, though, let me sum things up a bit quickly and dirtily.

The lawyer's argument rests on disputing the way that Trump saying "The coronavirus" and Trump saying "This is their new hoax" are put side by side, combined with the fact that, when Trump said hoax in that case, it wasn't referring to COVID-19 itself. The lawyer objects to the implication that Trump was calling the coronavirus itself a hoax, rather than Trump calling the press sounding the alarms about the wildly lacking response and very dramatically already sabotaged and the in progress attempts to further sabotage response capability to the coronavirus a hoax.

So, how much merit does that actually have? Alright then, the audio of the two clips is quite clearly spliced together, just like all the rest of the splicing that makes up the ad. That, alone, nearly negates the deceptive editing angle where the attempt is made to deceive people into thinking it's a single statement. Going further, the very next statement was "We have it totally under control. It's one person, coming in from China." That pretty well negates any reasonable interpretation that Trump was denying the COVID-19's existence, which pretty well just breaks the lawyer's argument, given that it is extremely dependent on ignoring context and attacking a technicality. Substance-wise? With the Hoax comment in context, Trump was pointedly downplaying the situation at hand and working to create an alternative narrative to reality - one in which his response wasn't incredibly lacking, because he believed that the threat of COVID-19 was being greatly overblown by people who hate him specifically to hurt him (much like he and right-wing propagandists tried to do to Obama with Ebola). The ad communicates the substance there reasonably well, really, with the juxtapositions handled as they were.
 
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Only one tweet today

Trump Tweeted

I will be doing a News Conference live from the @WhiteHouse at 5:00 P.M. (Eastern) to discuss the mtg of the G20 Leaders that took place this morning at 7:55 A.M. by World Teleconference. Also, my 12:00 P.M. Teleconference call w/50 Governors, plus Territories, will be discussed.
 
Aridas said:
Given how you've responded? Yes.



Which has been done well past a reasonable extent already. Here, though, let me sum things up a bit quickly and dirtily.

The lawyer's argument rests on disputing the way that Trump saying "The coronavirus" and Trump saying "This is their new hoax" are put side by side, combined with the fact that, when Trump said hoax in that case, it wasn't referring to COVID-19 itself. The lawyer objects to the implication that Trump was calling the coronavirus itself a hoax, rather than Trump calling the press sounding the alarms about the wildly lacking response and very dramatically already sabotaged and the in progress attempts to further sabotage response capability to the coronavirus a hoax.

So, how much merit does that actually have? Alright then, the audio of the two clips is quite clearly spliced together, just like all the rest of the splicing that makes up the ad. That, alone, nearly negates the deceptive editing angle where the attempt is made to deceive people into thinking it's a single statement. Going further, the very next statement was "We have it totally under control. It's one person, coming in from China." That pretty well negates any reasonable interpretation that Trump was denying the COVID-19's existence, which pretty well just breaks the lawyer's argument, given that it is extremely dependent on ignoring context and attacking a technicality. Substance-wise? With the Hoax comment in context, Trump was pointedly downplaying the situation at hand and working to create an alternative narrative to reality - one in which his response wasn't incredibly lacking, because he believed that the threat of COVID-19 was being greatly overblown by people who hate him specifically to hurt him (much like he and right-wing propagandists tried to do to Obama with Ebola). The ad communicates the substance there reasonably well, really, with the juxtapositions handled as they were.
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I agree.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You've seen the pattern.

First he ignored the crisis, imagined it would go away.

Then he imagined the single action he took was fantastic, that would fix it, all will hail King Trump.

The problem starts to show and the press gets louder.

Trump blames them, their fear mongering is the problem, Trump fixed the problem. The press wants Trump to lose the election.

Fast forward and suddenly Trump is on top of it. He gives his speech to the country. Now the action he took delayed the crisis, no mention that no one did anything during this delay but he saved thousands of lives.

Trump continues blaming others and the blaming gets louder. It's China's fault for the delay, again, no mention of swift action Trump didn't take once China reported the epidemic except for his magical order to keep Chinese out. This action has now grown to be something no other POTUS would have done (he's got that right), that he was called a racist, but look how smart he was and he saved tens of thousands of lives. All hail his greatness. Spread the word it's the Chinese and the press that wants him to lose the election.

Things get worse. Besides repeating the above fantasy, he blames Obama claiming he was left with a broken out of date system. And the pandemic action committee he dismissed couldn't of helped because it was out of date and didn't prepare for this pandemic. No one could have predicted this. Of course in revised history, Trump called it a pandemic long before anyone else....


This is all predictable Trump. Now the economic collapse is the result of the Democrats trying to make him lose the election.

He's come full circle to ignoring the seriousness of the problem, imagining a magical cure like chloroquine that he alone recognized. In his fantasy it will be over by Easter and all will hail King Trump.

Only briefly and I'm sure he has moments of sheer panic. But that is quickly replaced with, it's all about people out to get him and it will magically be over by Easter. All hail King Trump.

There is no doubt he simply blames other people for his business failures. After all he's still sucking the money in, money laundering is lucrative. The Russians are bankrolling his golf courses. The Apprentice was the most popular show in the world ever.
Click to expand...

I agree. This is a difficult problem, Trump wants there to be a magic bullet. That is why he has been all over chloroquine. That is why he gave orphan drug rights to Gilead, even though a treatment for an infection affecting millions of people is the opposite of an orphan drug. This is why he tried to get exclusive rights to the German RNA vaccine. He wants some easy quick and dramatic fix that will make him look like a hero and make the difficult work of managing a pandemic go away.
 
dudalb said:
Cease and desist orders, according to my sister who ia practicing attorney, are something of a joke in the legal profession. Just sending one has no real force of law;you have to get a court order. And judges are notoriously skeptical to give such an order.
This one is particualry usless;would be thrown out of court immedietely as a clear violation of the First Amendment.
BTW all through his career Trump has used cease and desists and threats of legal action to bully people.
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C&D orders can work, but only when the circumstances are absolutely blatant. I've seen them work a couple of times when one company blatantly copied another company's product with almost no changes (the most recent I witnessed being a wallet tool called the Pocket Monkey (yes.) being blatantly copied by another company and called the Pocket Ninja). The C&D is basically a chance to let the imitator know they face serious legal challenges and if they drop it now there won't be any more action.

But once you get away from such obvious patent infringements they fall in power and influence real fast.
 
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