Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 19

[thaiboxerken]

https://www.salon.com/2020/02/24/gi...dvfMCh1A5cHFK-XYXPwqLz40KFvGXOYrKZM8vZciTIdY8

Ginni Thomas reportedly leading purge of “disloyal” Trump aides

At what point can we call it fascism?

 

[thaiboxerken]

https://www.salon.com/2020/02/24/gi...dvfMCh1A5cHFK-XYXPwqLz40KFvGXOYrKZM8vZciTIdY8

Ginni Thomas reportedly leading purge of “disloyal” Trump aides

At what point can we call it fascism?

 

[Horatius]

There's already the irony that potentially President Trump risked impeachment to get dirt on someone who (at this moment, shifting sand of the political landscape dutifully acknowledged) is going to wind up being a distant 3rd or 4th runner and was never a legit threat to him to begin with.

I've always said, being a stalking horse for the GOP ******** Brigade was the best role Biden could play in this election cycle.

 

[Trebuchet]

It seems like Trump has been assuming he wasn't going to win the nomination. His comments to Bernie's supporters have sounded like an unspoken "If Bernie doesn't get nominated, won't that make you mad? You should all protest by staying home and refusing to vote for whoever steals the nomination from him, like you did last time."

That too.

 

[Stacyhs]

All these conflicting predictions about Sanders are going to look mighty foolish after President Warren is sworn in.

She'd be my preference over Sanders.

 

[Stacyhs]

FFS, there are STILL people who claim that Mexico IS paying for the wall! Through whatever trade benefit they can invent.

They can't even admit that he lied to their faces, so they have to completely invent a way to cover for it.

(They can't even get away with "he didn't claim that Mexico would write a check" or anything like that, because he exactly DID claim that)

They want it to be true so desperately. But, ya cain't fix stoopid.

 

[plague311]

The lie that Mexico would pay for the wall is a good example. Did anyone with more than half a brain actually believe Mexico would cough up billions in order to built Trump's wall? Of course not. But they wanted to believe it so they went with it and cheered the Orange Moron whenever he lied right to their faces.

And they still cheer it, even though they know it's a lie.

Did he really lie though? Think of what he's done to that border. Per this article everything he would have wanted to happen with the wall is happening under his current policy with, what would be considered to him, amazing results. Given that immigrants are no longer released into the US, they just don't want to come here. At this point, and I know he knows it, he doesn't have to build the wall. The messages of cruelty, denial, and even if you get in, how fast it can change when Trump doesn't get a diaper change, has been the biggest deterrent. He's just building the wall to say he's fulfilled a promise.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Did he really lie though?

Yes. Mexico is not paying for the wall and there is nothing in place to make them.

 

[plague311]

Yes. Mexico is not paying for the wall and there is nothing in place to make them.

Be that as it may, they are paying for their police, military, and immigration folks to prevent immigrants from even reaching the border. Again, the effect is the same, even if it's obtained through a different method.

Goal = Stop people from Mexico\South American Countries from coming to America, on Mexico's dime.

Trump = Done and done.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Yes. Mexico is not paying for the wall and there is nothing in place to make them.

That's only a lie if what Trump said is what he meant.

He spoke in code and his followers all understood it.

Neither Trump nor his base actually care about "a wall" in any real, tangible sense.

You have to run it through the "Shaka When the Walls Fell" translator.

Trump: "We're going to build a wall!" ("I am going to mess with those brown people.")
Tumpsters: "We want that wall!" ("We want you to mess with those brown people.")

 

[Upchurch]

You have to run it through the "Shaka When the Walls Fell" translator.

Trump: "We're going to build a wall!" ("I am going to mess with those brown people.")
Tumpsters: "We want that wall!" ("We want you to mess with those brown people.")

I feel that:

Trump: "Who's gonna pay?"
Trumpsters: "MEXICO!"​

only requires understanding the context.

 

[xjx388]

Sanders is the favorite candidate of the Dems with a plurality; you shouldn't simply dismiss that. If you've got evidence that a significant portion of that 70% will refuse to come out for Sanders I'd like to see it; I can only provide the best evidence I am aware of. You got anything better than pure speculation?

You have evidence that Sanders is leading in the primaries. You don't have evidence of what that means for the General. I can only point out that ~70% of those polled support a candidate other than Sanders, which seems like obvious evidence that a big majority of voters in those States wouldn't pick Bernie as their first choice. You don't have evidence that those guys and gals will come out for Sanders. I certainly don't have evidence that they won't come out, but I'm not claiming that. I'm simply pointing out that primary polls tell us nothing about how the General will turn out.

Simply put, you are reading more information from these polls than the polls actually have to offer.

Now, these polls (you can change the State on the page)are more along the lines of what is currently trending for the General, but this far out, it's still too early to make solid predictions. In short, for Trump vs. Sanders: WI, MI and PA are all pretty close. So there, at least, is some evidence that Sanders isn't simply dead in the water vs. Trump. However, the caveat is that these same kinds of polls showed Clinton ahead and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Segnosaur]

Be that as it may, they are paying for their police, military, and immigration folks to prevent immigrants from even reaching the border. Again, the effect is the same, even if it's obtained through a different method.

Goal = Stop people from Mexico\South American Countries from coming to America, on Mexico's dime.

Trump = Done and done.

Yet Trump's campaign promises were quite explicit... he would build a wall and Mexico would pay for it. There's no real wiggle room there, regardless of whatever efforts Mexico is putting in place to deal with immigration issues. He didn't say "I'll stop immigration any way I can". He said "Build a wall".

By the way, keep in mind that "mexico will pay" was not Trump's only broken promise. At one point, he also claimed that the wall would cost $4 billion. Then he escalated that to $8 and then $12 billion. Meanwhile the Department of Homeland Security has given estimates in the $22 billion dollar range.

So not only did Trump lie about who would pay for it, he also lied about the cost.

https://www.axios.com/the-cost-of-t...124-13eea683-e89a-4e45-85fc-83355d3d00b5.html

 

[Minoosh]

https://www.salon.com/2020/02/24/gi...dvfMCh1A5cHFK-XYXPwqLz40KFvGXOYrKZM8vZciTIdY8

Ginni Thomas reportedly leading purge of “disloyal” Trump aides

At what point can we call it fascism?

A possible saving grace is that once ideological purges begin all the wannabe Trump besties will turn on each other for insufficient loyalty because that’s just what they do. There always has to be target. Depending on how you define “Trump aides,” arguably he is perfectly entitled to purge people who operate outside of civil service protections. Those jobs are pure pork without a hint of meritocracy. As a matter of fact, there may be an inverse relationship between competence and loyalty. I don’t know how many of these patronage-type positions exist relative to the career bureaucrats who are keeping their heads down and doing their jobs. These situations tend to lead to unintended consequences though.

IMO anyone who *wants* to work for Trump is suspect anyway and if they get canned I’m cool with it. Keep springing those leaks!

 

[plague311]

Yet Trump's campaign promises were quite explicit... he would build a wall and Mexico would pay for it. There's no real wiggle room there, regardless of whatever efforts Mexico is putting in place to deal with immigration issues. He didn't say "I'll stop immigration any way I can". He said "Build a wall".

By the way, keep in mind that "mexico will pay" was not Trump's only broken promise. At one point, he also claimed that the wall would cost $4 billion. Then he escalated that to $8 and then $12 billion. Meanwhile the Department of Homeland Security has given estimates in the $22 billion dollar range.

So not only did Trump lie about who would pay for it, he also lied about the cost.

https://www.axios.com/the-cost-of-t...124-13eea683-e89a-4e45-85fc-83355d3d00b5.html

And if this were pre-Trump times I'd say that all of what you said seriously mattered. At this point, I know what will happen, and when Trump is confronted with this "broken promise" he'll change it to "I said I'd control illegal immigration, and that's exactly what I did."

 

[Cabbage]

You have evidence that Sanders is leading in the primaries. You don't have evidence of what that means for the General. I can only point out that ~70% of those polled support a candidate other than Sanders, which seems like obvious evidence that a big majority of voters in those States wouldn't pick Bernie as their first choice. You don't have evidence that those guys and gals will come out for Sanders. I certainly don't have evidence that they won't come out, but I'm not claiming that. I'm simply pointing out that primary polls tell us nothing about how the General will turn out.

Simply put, you are reading more information from these polls than the polls actually have to offer.

Actually, I think you are forgetting the order of events:

1. Distracted1 says Sanders is "the candidate we know they will have the toughest time with" (in the rust belt).

2. I specifically asked him why he thinks that. He never provided any evidence other than the fact that he's lived there most of his life (which, I will point out, is still pretty far removed from having a feel for how the general state population feels--you only know the people you know, you know?). Anecdotally, I mentioned the fact that Sanders is actually the favorite candidate in at least two of the rust belt states; this, while not definitive, absolutely casts doubt on Sanders being " the candidate we know they will have the toughest time with".

No, I don't know how the 70% that don't favor Sanders actually feel about Sanders. I have yet to see anybody provide any evidence whatsoever for that.

Anyway, the point is: I never made a claim. I simply contested Distracted1's claim.

 

[The Man]

I don't think it works like that. Those people don't believe everything Trump says. They believe whatever they want to believe, and don't care (or know) if it's true or not. That said, Trump is very good at saying what some people want to believe.
Hans

100% agreed.

The lie that Mexico would pay for the wall is a good example. Did anyone with more than half a brain actually believe Mexico would cough up billions in order to built Trump's wall? Of course not. But they wanted to believe it so they went with it and cheered the Orange Moron whenever he lied right to their faces.

And therein lies the rub of it. Of course Trump isn't good at saying what some people want to believe. What his base is good at is letting him know what they want him to say, not that they have to believe it themselves. He's even said it himself, to them, he'll say something that he admits he doesn't agree with, they'll respond, if it works he just keeps using it. So they respond most and most favorably to the stuff they want him to keep saying. I'm not sure belief on anyone's part has anything to do with any of it.

It's like the button rats. An experiment where the rats had a lever wired to their brain such that pressing it resulted in a reinforced pleasure response. It would just keep pushing the lever to the exclusion of all else, even food. A couple of human experiments went about the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_stimulation_reward

In a case published in 1986, a subject who was given the ability to self-stimulate at home ended up ignoring her family and personal hygiene, and spent entire days on electrical self-stimulation. By the time her family intervened, the subject had developed an open sore on her finger from repeatedly adjusting the current.[13]

To paraphrase Padmé Amidala.

'This is why rule of law dies, for want of a thunderous applause.'

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Retweeted

GOP
@GOP
“The Republican Party has nearly eight times as much cash-on-hand as the Democratic Party in the heat of the 2020 primary season.”

From wanting to nationalize America’s major industries to banning fracking which could gut nearly 15 million jobs, Bernie Sanders’ ideas, which have been adopted by the rest of the Democrat field, are a danger to America and to our way of life.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweeted

Great new book just out, “Taken for Granted, How Conservatives Can Win Back Americans That Liberalism Failed”, by Gianni Caldwell, a young winner! He will be at the Ronald Reagan Library, Simi Valley, California, on Thursday at 6 PM, PT. Check it out!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I've never refused to acknowledge that. You, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge that you don't actually know what effect that campaign will have. I think that projection is confusing you yet again.

I know enough to dismiss your assertion those polls mean anything.