Sinn Fein Wins Irish Election

[rockinkt]

Killing defenseless people - especially women and children - is the specialty of the IRA scum and always will be. Sinn Fein is just another name for those animals and always will be. A pox on the house of anyone who calls themselves Sinn Fein or IRA and any of their supporters.
The fact that they have election success is no testament to anything good about them - it is just testament to the fact that people can embrace any horrible behaviour and vote for anyone who agrees with their hatred and prejudices. (For more proof of that type of voting behaviour - see the United States' 45th - and most likely 46th - president).

On 10 February 2005, the government-appointed Independent Monitoring Commission reported that it firmly supported the PSNI and Garda Síochána assessments that the IRA was responsible for the Northern Bank robbery and that certain senior members of Sinn Féin were also senior members of the IRA and would have had knowledge of and given approval to the carrying out of the robbery.
Fourth report of the Independent Monitoring Commission". Independent Monitoring Commission. 10 February 2005.

 

[angrysoba]

What is the evidence that the current IRA is linked to these current violent terrorist factions? I am not arguing they are not, nor that they are. Just tell me.

As I said, I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Giordano]

Okay, so far I see a link to a bank robbery 15 years ago and a lack of a benefit of a doubt.

I am not an IRA or Sinn Fein supporter. I recognize their past terrorism. I don’t forgive it. Many innocent people were killed by their thugs. But my understanding is that they pulled back from violent terrorism with the Good Friday agreement in 1998. Life in The UK is safer because of this. Many of their thugs have died or are simply too old to do much. Many of the people in Sinn Fein today never committed violence. Refusal to acknowledge this seems to me to be counterproductive. Sure they can change back to violence again, so being cautious and suspicious of them makes sense. But not recognizing they are important political powers in Ireland that need to involved in foreign and internal policy issues seems impractical.

Again they are not the only terror group that now is a part of a legitimate government.

 

[PhantomWolf]

(For more proof of that type of voting behaviour - see the United States' 45th - and most likely 46th - president)

Just as a totally unrelated side note, but you are aware that should Trump win re-election, he will remain the 45th president. #46 will be the President after Trump, whether that is in the Election this year, as a result of his inability to complete his term, or in the case of his re-election this year, whoever is elected in 2024. Re-elected Presidents don't increase the number. Unless you are suggesting that whoever follows Trump will also be elected because of people's hatred and prejudices?

 

[angrysoba]

Okay, so far I see a link to a bank robbery 15 years ago and a lack of a benefit of a doubt.

I am not an IRA or Sinn Fein supporter. I recognize their past terrorism. I don’t forgive it. Many innocent people were killed by their thugs. But my understanding is that they pulled back from violent terrorism with the Good Friday agreement in 1998. Life in The UK is safer because of this. Many of their thugs have died or are simply too old to do much. Many of the people in Sinn Fein today never committed violence. Refusal to acknowledge this seems to me to be counterproductive. Sure they can change back to violence again, so being cautious and suspicious of them makes sense. But not recognizing they are important political powers in Ireland that need to involved in foreign and internal policy issues seems impractical.

Again they are not the only terror group that now is a part of a legitimate government.

No one is stopping you from having your view on Sinn Fein. You haven’t said anything to persuade me to change my view though.

 

[The Atheist]

Killing defenseless people - especially women and children - is the specialty of the IRA scum and always will be. Sinn Fein is just another name for those animals and always will be.

They must be losing their touch, having not killed anyone with a bomb for 24 years.

Do you protest as vehemently about US killing innocent civilians with drones?

 

[rockinkt]

Okay, so far I see a link to a bank robbery 15 years ago and a lack of a benefit of a doubt.

The bank robbery connection proves that they have only pulled back - not changed their ways. What do you think the money will be used for - paying money to all the families of the people they raped, tortured and murdered - or for a war chest?

But my understanding is that they pulled back from violent terrorism with the Good Friday agreement in 1998. Life in The UK is safer because of this.

Hilarious! Picture this: "Your Honor - my client stopped murdering people a while back. He deserves to be thanked for making the community a safer place for people because the murder rate has dropped now that he has stopped murdering people.

Many of their thugs have died or are simply too old to do much. Many of the people in Sinn Fein today never committed violence. Refusal to acknowledge this seems to me to be counterproductive.

The horrid and twisted mindset of people that are willing to rejoice in the past terrorist activities of such an organization and want to become a part of it should make any person with an ounce of common decency want to vomit.

Sure they can change back to violence again, so being cautious and suspicious of them makes sense. But not recognizing they are important political powers in Ireland that need to involved in foreign and internal policy issues seems impractical.

Having to hold one's nose when dealing with horrible people and horrid regimes is nothing new on the national and international stage.

Again they are not the only terror group that now is a part of a legitimate government.

True - but that does not make them free from the fact that they are a terrorist organization that venerates their horrible former members and acts of terrorism. They should never be allowed to forget that.

 

[angrysoba]

They haven’t done terrorism for years, and other people once did terrorism, too.

Martin McGuinness was the First Minister until 2017 and only died that same year. Gerry Adams was a TD until, literally, yesterday.

It’s not as if those involved in actual IRA activities are long gone.

For me, the burden of proof is on them to show they can be trusted. They have to earn that trust and haven’t yet.

 

[psionl0]

It's a 'win' in the same way Hillary Clinton 'won' the US presidency in 2016.

It is exactly not like that at all.

Unlike the WTA elections in the US, I understand that Ireland has multi-member electorates elected by PR using STV. Preferences don't matter a whit in the US but they are important in Ireland.

 

[rockinkt]

They must be losing their touch, having not killed anyone with a bomb for 24 years.

They have been dormant for periods of time in the past.

Do you protest as vehemently about US killing innocent civilians with drones?

You bet! We Canadians are not really happy about innocent civilians being killed by anyone.

 

[Darat]

They must be losing their touch, having not killed anyone with a bomb for 24 years.



Do you protest as vehemently about US killing innocent civilians with drones?

Er?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...may-captured-on-cctv-court-told-37401014.html

Terrorists in NI have been continuing to bomb and shoot people all this century. That your news sources apparently don't carry those stories is quite strange if they are interested in reporting terrorist stories from the UK.

 

[Darat]

And coincidentally today this news has broken. BBC News - Lyra McKee murder: Four men arrested in Derry
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-51457008

 

[catsmate]

IMHO this thread could legitimately be jointed to the Brexit thread.

No. While the issues are similar, desperate idiots believing promised by populists, it's not that Brexit related. To voters Brexit was a non-issue.

Admittedly I am a USA citizen, but it appeared to me that Brexit and the re-introduction of a border (of some kind, somewhere) between the Republic and Northern Ireland would inevitably stir-up Irish Nationalist feelings and concerns.

That was bugger all to so with the vote; it was entirely domestic issues, to wit, housing and health.

Welcome to the Troubles II?

It'll incite the lunatic fringes in Norn Iron but not yet.

 

[catsmate]

Troubles III ,actually.

Troubles I: the Irish War of Independence aka "The Black and Tan war" 1916-1922.
Troubles II The Ulster war 1968-1998.

Before Ulster flared up, "The Troubles" was used as a term for the 1916 to 1922 war .

Sixth.
You're forgetting:
The Emergency of 1939-40
The Emergency, part 2: 1932-44
The Border Campaign of 1956-62 ("The Patriot Game""

 

[Darat]

No. While the issues are similar, desperate idiots believing promised by populists, it's not that Brexit related. To voters Brexit was a non-issue.





That was bugger all to so with the vote; it was entirely domestic issues, to wit, housing and health.





It'll incite the lunatic fringes in Norn Iron but not yet.

Yep. And in one way there is some good news from the vote, SF is a left party. Shows that the idea Europe is moving relentlessly rightwards isn't correct.

 

[catsmate]

No to mention the whole "we will not be ruled by the Papists" thing.....

"Home Rule Is Rome Rule".....

Actually these days the problem is Ireland is notably more liberal on social issues (SSM, pregnancy termination, LGBT rights, racism et cetera) that the northern rump.

 

[catsmate]

Would you say that about the people who crashed planes into the World Trade Center towers?

Or Sam Adams and his fellows...

 

[Darat]

Actually these days the problem is Ireland is notably more liberal on social issues (SSM, pregnancy termination, LGBT rights, racism et cetera) that the northern rump.

Slightly disagree, I'd say it is the rabidly "religious" unionists parties that are in the dark ages, but from surveys the population seems pretty much in line with Ireland.

 

[catsmate]

Yep. And in one way there is some good news from the vote, SF is a left party. Shows that the idea Europe is moving relentlessly rightwards isn't correct.

Yes, but...

There's a new left/right divide in Irish politics but it's very fragmented and based on reaction to domestic issues. The 'old left' of Labour (and I'll include the SDs there) isn't doing well and the vote share is going to the Greens and Sinn Féin who, frankly, aren't fit to govern. Plus lots of independents and fringe idiots (remember Wallace ).

Plus let's look at the numbers:
38 Fianna Fáil
37 Sinn Féin (plus Tóibín)
35 Fine Gael
12 SD/Labour
12 Greens
6 Solidarity/PBP/I4C
18 Independents

Try and get a stable block of eighty out of that....

An xmas election I suspect.


Also I'd like to know the five thousand who voted for Barrett, Reynolds and their fellow fascists.

 

[catsmate]

Slightly disagree, I'd say it is the rabidly "religious" unionists parties that are in the dark ages, but from surveys the population seems pretty much in line with Ireland.

Oh yes, however the rabids control the DUP to a huge extent.