Sinn Fein Wins Irish Election

[dudalb]

As I said, someone needs to read some Irish history.....


"Ulster Will fight And Ulster Will Be Right!".

 

[Giordano]

IMHO this thread could legitimately be jointed to the Brexit thread. Admittedly I am a USA citizen, but it appeared to me that Brexit and the re-introduction of a border (of some kind, somewhere) between the Republic and Northern Ireland would inevitably stir-up Irish Nationalist feelings and concerns.

Welcome to the Troubles II?

 

[Giordano]

There's been a lot, police officers and prison officers targeted, bombs, shootings you name it.

Eta I did a Google search "northern ireland terrorism 2010" nice summary paper BBC News - Northern Ireland-terrorism 'increasing threat' to Britain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14123147


https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...&q=related:Sqod2Ex7wtTY3M:scholar.google.com/

The sources you cite focus on violent dissent groups other than the IRA (the group associated with Sinn Fein) and actually note that the IRA has largely "put away its weapons" (although everyone suspects that they can re-arm easily if they wish). Is there evidence that Sinn Fein is currently associated with any of the active terrorist groups?

 

[Giordano]

was?

"They haven't gone away you know!"

My understanding is that the IRA has mostly been respecting the Good Friday agreement and that the violence that remains is largely propagated by other radical groups. This is not to say that the IRA could not, would not return to even massive violence if they chose/were sufficiently provoked.

 

[dudalb]

IMHO this thread could legitimately be jointed to the Brexit thread. Admittedly I am a USA citizen, but it appeared to me that Brexit and the re-introduction of a border (of some kind, somewhere) between the Republic and Northern Ireland would inevitably stir-up Irish Nationalist feelings and concerns.

Welcome to the Troubles II?

Troubles III ,actually.

Troubles I: the Irish War of Inpendence aka "The Black and Tan war" 1916-1922.
Troubles II The Ulster war 1968-1998.

Before Ulster flared up, "The Troubles" was used as a term for the 1916 to 1922 war .

 

[Giordano]

Of course it is very common for terrorist/guerrilla/freedom fighting/insurgent groups that have employed violence to become established, ruling political parties: this has occurred not just in Ireland but in Israel, South Africa, Cuba, France, etc. I think it is impossible to reject them simply on the basis of their violent connections in the past.

However it is also very common for established ruling political parties to stay or become terrorists. I think that is a more practical and moral basis for accepting or rejecting their current legitimacy.

 

[dudalb]

Just saw the footage of Sinn Fein supporters singing 'Come out you Blacks and Tans" during a victory celebratation….hoo boy.
Fun song, but being sung under these circumstances not exactly reassuring.

 

[KDLarsen]

Just saw the footage of Sinn Fein supporters singing 'Come out you Blacks and Tans" during a victory celebratation….hoo boy.
Fun song, but being sung under these circumstances not exactly reassuring.

With a newly re-elected TD amongst them no less.

 

[PhantomWolf]

All Sinn Fein are doing is promoting support for and waiting for a sufficient majority to vote for a united Ireland.

If enough people vote to unite Ireland, the Unionists would hopefully accept the result.

You realise that if the Unionists wanted to join Ireland they would have done if 60 years ago?

That's the Problem. The majority of Northern Ireland don't want to be a part of the Republic of Ireland, they want to remain a part of the UK. Most of them see themselves as either British (or its component countries) or as Northern Irish as opposed to being Irish. Their ties are to the UK, not Ireland.

 

[Craig4]

A united Ireland moves another step closer.

As does an independent Scotland. Everyone may soon get what they want from Brexit. The countries in the UK who wanted to stay will and the countries that wanted to leave will. They just won't be the UK anymore.

 

[dudalb]

You realise that if the Unionists wanted to join Ireland they would have done if 60 years ago?

That's the Problem. The majority of Northern Ireland don't want to be a part of the Republic of Ireland, they want to remain a part of the UK. Most of them see themselves as either British (or its component countries) or as Northern Irish as opposed to being Irish. Their ties are to the UK, not Ireland.

No to mention the whole "we will not be ruled by the Papists" thing.....

"Home Rule Is Rome Rule".....

 

[dudalb]

As does an independent Scotland. Everyone may soon get what they want from Brexit. The countries in the UK who wanted to stay will and the countries that wanted to leave will. They just won't be the UK anymore.

I think the chances of Scottish Indpenedence are MUCH greater then a reunited Ireland. given a majority of the people in Ulster, rightly or wrongly, don't want to be part of the Republic......

 

[dudalb]

With a newly re-elected TD amongst them no less.

If it would have been "A Nation Once Again", "Rising Of the Moon" or even "Foggy Dew" it would not have been so bad, but the one chose is a particularly nasty one.

 

[The Atheist]

There's been a lot, police officers and prison officers targeted, bombs, shootings you name it.

I count five NI-based terror incidents since 2000, and only one since 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

I read your links and see lots of claims and little detail. I'm sure there are still the odd insane Micks who want to bomb everything British, but they're fringe elements and are harming <1% as many people as Islamic terrorists.

 

[angrysoba]

My understanding is that the IRA has mostly been respecting the Good Friday agreement and that the violence that remains is largely propagated by other radical groups. This is not to say that the IRA could not, would not return to even massive violence if they chose/were sufficiently provoked.

Sure! “Those guys” are nothing to do with us.

 

[angrysoba]

IMHO this thread could legitimately be jointed to the Brexit thread. Admittedly I am a USA citizen, but it appeared to me that Brexit and the re-introduction of a border (of some kind, somewhere) between the Republic and Northern Ireland would inevitably stir-up Irish Nationalist feelings and concerns.

Welcome to the Troubles II?

No! Ireland is an independent country. It is not as if everything they do is based on what happens in the UK. To say that this thread should be part of the Brexit thread is (unintentionally) insulting.

I actually know some people who are attracted to a lot of Sinn Fein’s economic policies. I seem to remember water charges were one of the big ones not long ago.

That said, I also have relatives who like to post “up the Ra!” on Facebook. I think it is fair to say that not all Sinn Fein’s support is from those who support violent struggle, but it is also wrong to say none of it is.

I look at Sinn Fein like I do France’s Front Nationale. They can say they have changed if they want, but I won’t give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Giordano]

Sure! “Those guys” are nothing to do with us.

What is the evidence that the current IRA is linked to these current violent terrorist factions? I am not arguing they are not, nor that they are. Just tell me.

 

[Robin]

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

Would you say that about the people who crashed planes into the World Trade Center towers?

 

[Giordano]

No! Ireland is an independent country. It is not as if everything they do is based on what happens in the UK. To say that this thread should be part of the Brexit thread is (unintentionally) insulting.

I actually know some people who are attracted to a lot of Sinn Fein’s economic policies. I seem to remember water charges were one of the big ones not long ago.

That said, I also have relatives who like to post “up the Ra!” on Facebook. I think it is fair to say that not all Sinn Fein’s support is from those who support violent struggle, but it is also wrong to say none of it is.

I look at Sinn Fein like I do France’s Front Nationale. They can say they have changed if they want, but I won’t give them the benefit of the doubt.

The Brexit thread clearly includes discussions of the effects of Brexit on other countries. It is obvious that Brexit has serious consequences and effects on the Republic of Ireland and its relationship to the U.K. The border with Northern Ireland has in fact been a major issue within the negotiations for Brexit.

Although there are other issues that led to this historic gain in representation by the Sinn Fein I cannot doubt that a nationalistic pushback in response to Brexit is involved.

My suggestion to move this thread to the Brexit one was in the spirit of making this point, not a serious suggestion as to forum management. But offensive?

 

[Giordano]

Would you say that about the people who crashed planes into the World Trade Center towers?

I would say that their are people who view the 9/11 terrorists as freedom fighters. I am not among these people. But it is very important to recognize that many such people do exist in the world and to understand why they (mistakingly) believe this. Very important if you wish to reduce the numbers of people who will fly planes into buildings.