2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part III

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Getting nothing done and not compromising does not necessarily follow from being ideological/ having a grand vision for change. Another GOP Senate and that ****** McConnell will shaft any Dem president, regardless. They must win the Senate.

Sanders policies are about improving the lot of many ordinary Americans, including improving the prospects for many kids growing up in the most disadvantaged communities. His policies are worth fighting for.

Ideologues tend not to compromise because they don't bend.

I agree that the Senate has to go Dem or little will get done.
I like a lot of Sanders policies but I think that some are just too far left to have any chance of passing a GOP Senate...which I think will be the case. I don't look for a Dem controlled Senate.
 
Ideologues tend not to compromise because they don't bend.

I agree that the Senate has to go Dem or little will get done.
I like a lot of Sanders policies but I think that some are just too far left to have any chance of passing a GOP Senate...which I think will be the case. I don't look for a Dem controlled Senate.

Well then executive orders will continue their stretch in the Obama, Trump tradition. Again these things are important to many Americans and a nation true to its optimistic founding values. If you don’t fight you lose by default.

Is it that too many posters here are too comfortable in their white retirement age demographic that they have no need for such a fight? It’s cynical I know and I bet some are probably doing it tough. The youthful Sanders base have trepidation for their futures and haven’t had their dreams for better ground down. They think these ideals for a fairer America are worth fighting for.
 
I agree. He's way to ideological. A president who will not compromise will get nothing done.

I hear what you're saying.

There's a segment of the population who hear that and think compromise has come to essentially mean "keep things the way they are" or, perhaps ironically "can we go back to the way things were" and they absolutely hate it.

The Democratic Party cannot sell that segment a platform of "can't we just go back to pretending we have domestic bliss and quietly engaging in rapacious greed across the globe without any concept of the consequences, please?"
 
I hear what you're saying.

There's a segment of the population who hear that and think compromise has come to essentially mean "keep things the way they are" or, perhaps ironically "can we go back to the way things were" and they absolutely hate it.

The Democratic Party cannot sell that segment a platform of "can't we just go back to pretending we have domestic bliss and quietly engaging in rapacious greed across the globe without any concept of the consequences, please?"

:thumbsup:
 
Executive orders.

Bully pulpit.

Arm twisting.

Politicians are scared of the pitchforks and torches. If Sanders the candidate can get the most powerful CEO in the world to concede, I trust that he can get enough turnout in a Senator's city to scare the bejeezus out of him.
 
I also think its a mistake to claim Trump's success was merely due to him being "an outsider". Voters are not some monolithic block... some may have voted for him because he was an outsider, some may have done so as a reflex "always vote republican", some may have been attracted specifically to his racism. And some may have liked his policies.

I think that it's best not to ignore the "Burn it all down" voters, especially the ones particularly not happy with the direction that the establishment Republican party was going in.

I think Elizabeth Warren might be one of those people:

“I’m gonna have a secretary of education that this young trans person interviews on my behalf,” Warren said. “And only if this person believes that our secretary of education nominee is someone who is committed to creating a welcoming environment, a safe environment, and a full educational curriculum for everyone, will that person actually be advanced to be secretary of education.”

https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/30/warren-transgender-secretary-education/

While it is indeed possible that Warren might be overestimating the progressive vote, she's one of the best candidates to unite the Democratic Party itself. To address this quote specifically, though, do you have a better source than the Daily Caller? It wouldn't be a surprise to me if Warren actually did this, but the Daily Caller's not exactly known for its trustworthiness.

To go a bit further, incidentally, I don't see anything wrong at all with taking a person from a group that's being marginalized and letting them have a bit more of a say in who leads efforts to maintain and make our educational system better. I admit that it's probably not going to actually affect the votes of very many trans folk, though, from a political angle.

Trump started his campaign by announcing he was going to build a border wall.

And a heck of a lot of people didn't take him at his word. To make the landscape more clear, of course, border security is quite popular among both Democrats and Republicans, though the specific focus and preferred courses of action differ.

"Okay but if we run Bernie then Russia won't interfere in the 2020 election" is... a very bold claim.

It really, really is bold. And doesn't have much credible basis to back it up - especially when Trump's been working so hard to give Putin as much of what Putin wants as Trump can get away with and Bernie would be much more neutral and willing to actually do things like... uphold sanctions that Congress unanimously agreed needed to be in place.

So wait the new narrative is the Russians were out to get Hillary not either help Trump or just generally muck up our election and take advantage of the confusion?

New? It was made pretty clear long ago that the Russian efforts were anti-Hillary, first and foremost when it dealt with politics, with a more general anti-Democrat push that comprised the bulk of the efforts (for example, the biggest single push overall was to get black people not to vote, which is pretty clearly anti-Democrat in effect, and the push to get black people not to vote is the kind of thing that's been portrayed as generally mucking things up), and pro-Trump was notably lower in priority. There was definitely a desire to muck things up, too, but that kind of thing didn't need to be prioritized when their efforts had that as a side effect anyways.

Forget the popular narratives. There is a popular narrative that there is a sex tape of young Russian women urinating on Trump in a Moscow hotel, utter ******** probably fabricated by the security services.

To poke at this, the actual bit of raw intel was that the peeing was on the spot where Obama had slept, not onto Trump. It's something petty and vulgar, but not a kink.

The unexpected U.S. assassination of General Suleimani might make them think twice about backing an anti-Iranian hawk in the White House.

Pompeo?

Seriously, Trump's actions towards Iran have pretty much all ended up benefiting Russia, though.

Exposed: Peter Schweizer Explains

Okay! That's enough reason to disregard that right there! Political operatives with a history of friggin' horrid logic in service to creating partisan propaganda narratives aren't worth paying attention to when they try to make similar hit-pieces.
 
I hear what you're saying.

There's a segment of the population who hear that and think compromise has come to essentially mean "keep things the way they are" or, perhaps ironically "can we go back to the way things were" and they absolutely hate it.

The Democratic Party cannot sell that segment a platform of "can't we just go back to pretending we have domestic bliss and quietly engaging in rapacious greed across the globe without any concept of the consequences, please?"

Compromise means neither of those. It means to concede something to each side that both can accept. It means working together to move forward. When neither side will give an inch and digs their heels in, then no one goes anywhere. I fail to see how that is a bad thing.
 
Compromise means neither of those. It means to concede something to each side that both can accept. It means working together to move forward. When neither side will give an inch and digs their heels in, then no one goes anywhere. I fail to see how that is a bad thing.

Sure, but the things that neolibs and conservatives can compromise on are disastrous policy. Things like endless war, big business bailouts, slashing social spending, deregulation, propping up private health care at the expense of ordinary people, and so on.

The average person sees political compromise as a dirty word because they rightly know it means they are about to get screwed. Neolibs offer token progressive policies as they trade away the farm when they compromise with the cynical right.

Progressives are willing to compromise, but what they consider acceptable is vastly different than centrist dems.
 
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The average person sees political compromise as a dirty word because they rightly know it means they are about to get screwed. Neolibs offer token progressive policies as they trade away the farm when they compromise with the cynical right.

I would like to see a study about how often these people are actually winners in these compromises.
 
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/bernie-sanderss-biggest-challenges/605500/

David Frum, a chief booster of the Iraq War disaster, but still a respected journalist for some reason, has an article in the Atlantic headlined "Bernie can't win".

One of his chief arguments is that Bernie is unvetted and therefore fragile. That he will collapse under intense scrutiny.

When is this going to happen? The Iowa Caucus is in 4 days. Every attack on him backfires on the people attempt it because they are so transparently desperate and bad faith.

The idea that other candidates are holding back is absurd. At this time in 2008, Hillary staffers had passed around the "Kenya Obama" photo, playing off the the whole birtherism/muslim Obama smear.

Some of these candidates, like Buttigieg and Klobuchar, are faltering. Biden could conceivably lose these first 2 contests and seriously damage his image as the clear frontrunner. If thought they had a chance to take down Bernie and keep their campaigns viable, they would take it.

I think the obvious conclusion is that Bernie isn't fragile to negative attacks. Quite the opposite.
 
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On some level I have to wonder if the current friendly fire against Sanders isn't a reverse-psychology move to get him nominated.
Because nothing will boost support for him, in the primaries or general election, more than the perception of him running against the DNC establishment.
 
On some level I have to wonder if the current friendly fire against Sanders isn't a reverse-psychology move to get him nominated.
Because nothing will boost support for him, in the primaries or general election, more than the perception of him running against the DNC establishment.

My impression of establishment DNC is that it's utterly clueless about how many on the left loathe it. I think they misinterpret decades of people voting for the lesser evil as a ringing endorsement of all their works.
 
No, he does not. He's way to rigid in his ideology. If he becomes president, I have no illusions of him being effective no matter who controls congress.
Flip the Senate and Sanders suddenly becomes a lot more effective as a legislator.

But I don't even care about that right now. I just want to stop the bleeding, mend fences with our former allies, etc.
 

*Confused* What is the dead horse here?

I feel like Tyrion talking to Cersai during the War of the Five Kings.

"You realize we're losing this war, right?"

The absolute second the Democrats actually win or accomplish anything everyone here can start shoveling crow in my mouth in a "I told you so" fit not seen since Hitler decided to be the second person to try and invade Russia in the Winter.

Until that point which has been perpetually coming any second now for about 3 years now and when Trump wins in 2020 you guys can all explain to what level of "Oh we're playing 4D Chess 20 steps ahead of him" that is.
 
My impression of establishment DNC is that it's utterly clueless about how many on the left loathe it. I think they misinterpret decades of people voting for the lesser evil as a ringing endorsement of all their works.

*Clap, clap, clap*

It's the Democratic Party, not the Progressive Party. They are running for the President of the United States not the President of Tumblr.
 
*Clap, clap, clap*

It's the Democratic Party, not the Progressive Party. They are running for the President of the United States not the President of Tumblr.

Then they will be delighted when AOC and her colleagues break into a new Progressive Party and compete for votes. I take it you assume the Democratic party will keep more voters than it loses? I think that's what the Democrat establishment thinks, too. I think they're in for a nasty shock.
 
Then they will be delighted when AOC and her colleagues break into a new Progressive Party and compete for votes. I take it you assume the Democratic party will keep more voters than it loses? I think that's what the Democrat establishment thinks, too. I think they're in for a nasty shock.
That would virtually guarantee Trump in 2020 and Ivanka in 2024. That will teach those Dems a lesson!
 
That would virtually guarantee Trump in 2020 and Ivanka in 2024. That will teach those Dems a lesson!

I don't think a split will happen that soon. The Baby Boomers need to die off first. I'm thinking late 2020s, 2030s. By then Gen X will be nearing retirement and will have more time and money on their hands.
 
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