Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 19

[BrooklynBaby]

If you think AOC is a party leader, I’m doubtful we can have a worthwhile discussion.

I don't have time to respond to all of these right now, but check this out:

"Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez raised nearly $2 million over the final three months of last year, according to the star House freshman's campaign.

Ocasio-Cortez’s sizable cash haul — $1.97 million in the fourth quarter of 2019 and over $5.3 million for the entire year — is one of the largest revealed so far among members of Congress, and the size of her fundraising base will likely stoke speculation about the New Yorker's ambitions.

She is expected to report entering 2020 with $3 million cash on hand, according to her campaign, even though she is running for reelection in an overwhelmingly blue district. But POLITICO recently reported that whispers have already started about a presidential run for the 30-year-old, and there’s also talk of a potential Senate run in 2022 or 2024."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/13/ocasio-cortez-campaign-cash-congress-098018

 

[Ladewig]

I kind of figured giving y'all advice wouldn't work out very good. Oh well, live and learn...

I would feel remiss if I didn't advise you that fake news isn't going to be showing you secret tapes of Bernie's Marxist supporters engaged in their nefarious planning. It's just one of the many things they omit to earn their title of fake news every day.

But I took you advice on the Marxists. I will denounce violent Marxists and I encourage people of all political stripes to denounce them.

 

[Segnosaur]

Horowitz says that nobody claimed they acted out of bias. But he also noted that the explanations offered for the widespread failures were inadequate. If you think that means there was no bias...

So, you're playing the "Republicans have been wrong before, but I'm really assuming that the next time they are right".

Oh, and while you're writting letters to santa hoping for evidence of bias, keep in mind that while there were some anti-Trump employees at the FBI, there were also many that harbored pro-Republican attitudes. Strange, if there was some sort of 'bias' at play, that none of those Republican-lovers would have raised any red flags.

https://www.businessinsider.com/doj-watchdog-pro-trump-text-messages-fbi-agents-2019-12

But the real kicker is, suppose there wasn't. The alternative is that those systematic and routine failures were just the norm in all FISA applications. That's worse.

The likely reason is that people probably just got lazy and complacent, rather than it being some sort of "deep state"

 

[acbytesla]

I don't have time to respond to all of these right now, but check this out:

"Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez raised nearly $2 million over the final three months of last year, according to the star House freshman's campaign.

Ocasio-Cortez’s sizable cash haul — $1.97 million in the fourth quarter of 2019 and over $5.3 million for the entire year — is one of the largest revealed so far among members of Congress, and the size of her fundraising base will likely stoke speculation about the New Yorker's ambitions.

She is expected to report entering 2020 with $3 million cash on hand, according to her campaign, even though she is running for reelection in an overwhelmingly blue district. But POLITICO recently reported that whispers have already started about a presidential run for the 30-year-old, and there’s also talk of a potential Senate run in 2022 or 2024."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/13/ocasio-cortez-campaign-cash-congress-098018

And yet she is not a party leader. She is a freshman Congresswoman who isn't a chairwoman of any committee. She's proven successful in raising money. So what?

 

[Ladewig]

And yet she is not a party leader. She is a freshman Congresswoman who isn't a chairwoman of any committee. She's proven successful in raising money. So what?

Exactly.

What precisely is your definition of a party leader, BrooklynBaby? (Please note that said definition should include both Representative Schiff and Representative AOC, given that you referenced them as party leaders)

 

[Ziggurat]

So, you're playing the "Republicans have been wrong before, but I'm really assuming that the next time they are right".

Wrong about what?

Oh, and while you're writting letters to santa hoping for evidence of bias,

I'm not hoping for any specific outcome, I'm pointing out a possibility that cannot be discounted yet. I've said before that I find it plausible that these errors weren't driven by bias, that the FBI is simply that corrupt and incompetent across the board.

I'm just wondering why you hope that's the case. Because again, that's actually the worse scenario.

The likely reason is that people probably just got lazy and complacent, rather than it being some sort of "deep state"

Institutional complacency isn't incompatible with the deep state. In fact, it's to be expected in such a scenario.

 

[TofuFighter]

If Rush lied i wouldn't listen to him. Would you care to relate some of the lies he has told recently? I'm all ears.

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/rush-limbaugh/
The plurality of what Rush says is false.

Any chance you're going to respond to this?

 

[McHrozni]

Possibly it would, but the GOP led senate would be the jury in any such impeachment trial and presumably would attempt to block any attempt to implement the 25th amendment so we'd be back at square one.

The Senate has no power there.

This is the relevant legal text:

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

The VP and the majority of the cabinet must submit their written declerations and Pence becomes Acting President immediately. The Senate can do nothing to block it.

Of course the GOP wouldn't apply the same approach to a Democratic President who was on trial in the senate. Any and all witnesses for the prosecution would be called and they would attempt to block any an all witnesses for the defence.

The GOP would be up in arms if it were not one of their own doing all the feces.

McHrozni

 

[Aridas]

I kind of figured giving y'all advice wouldn't work out very good. Oh well, live and learn...

Have you actually stopped listening to Limbaugh, yet, like you said you would?

But I took you advice on the Marxists. I will denounce violent Marxists and I encourage people of all political stripes to denounce them.

I, too, denounce violent Marxists. Just like I denounce the Trump supporters who said that it would be their honor to be suicide bombers in cities using nukes with a word from Trump.

 

[Ladewig]

Have you actually stopped listening to Limbaugh, yet, like you said you would?



I, too, denounce violent Marxists. Just like I denounce the Trump supporters who said that it would be their honor to be suicide bombers in cities using nukes with a word from Trump.

Wait, what!?

 

[Ladewig]

The Senate has no power there.

This is the relevant legal text:

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

The VP and the majority of the cabinet must submit their written declerations and Pence becomes Acting President immediately. The Senate can do nothing to block it.



The GOP would be up in arms if it were not one of their own doing all the feces.

McHrozni

You didn’t read far enough.
After the VP temporality takes office, the POTUS writes his letter to Congress saying he is not incapacitated. Then both houses of Congress must produce a 2/3 majority to remove the POTUS.

If Congress doesn’t decide he is incapacitated, he is free to wreak vengeance upon those that tried to remove him.

Also, VPOTUS would never, ever, ever, ever sign that paper. He might not know where the bodies are buried, but President Trump has shown him the open grave where VPOTUS’s body will be buried if a signature appears on a 25th Amendment declaration.

 

[McHrozni]

You didn’t read far enough.
After the VP temporality takes office, the POTUS writes his letter to Congress saying he is not incapacitated.

Non-issue.

Also, VPOTUS would never, ever, ever, ever sign that paper. He might not know where the bodies are buried, but President Trump has shown him the open grave where VPOTUS’s body will be buried if a signature appears on a 25th Amendment declaration.

Maybe, who knows. It certainly requires a little bravery on behalf of Pence and the cabinet, which is going to be difficult, seeing as bootlicking and distilled cowardice are necessary qualifications for the job.

McHrozni

 

[Aridas]

Wait, what!?

Yup. I don't have the link handy, but that was one of the more egregious examples that I saw of the stuff that Trump supporters were saying in relation to having a Civil War if Trump gets removed. Pretty sure I posted it to this thread... I have no idea how long ago, honestly. In the Era of Trump, it's hard to keep track of how long it's been with all the new BS that keeps being done.

 

[Belz...]

Majority of seats in our house-of-commons.

For example, we do have a minority government now, but prior to that, Trudeau managed to get a Majority government (184 out of 338 seats in the house of commons) even though the Liberal government managed to only get 39.5% of the popular vote. I could envision the U.S. congress going the same way: multiple parties, but with vote splitting giving the republicans the win despite getting far less than 50% of the vote.

Coud you explain how that works? I've weirdly watched mostly US politics stuff in the last 10 years rather than our own Canadian ones.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Great poll in Iowa, where I just landed for a Big Rally! #KAG2020����
Thank you Iowa, I love you!

This November, we are going to defeat the Radical Socialist Democrats and win the Great State of Iowa in a Historic Landslide! #KAG2020

To keep America Safe, we have fully rebuilt the U.S. Military – it is now stronger, more powerful, and more lethal than ever before. Thanks to the courage of American Heroes, the ISIS Caliphate has been DESTROYED & its founder & leader – the animal known as al-Baghdadi – is DEAD!

Washington Dems have spent the last 3 years trying to overturn the last election – and we will make sure they face another crushing defeat in the NEXT ELECTION. Together, we are going to win back the House, we are going to hold the Senate, & we are going to keep the White House!

Americans across the political spectrum are disgusted by the Washington Democrats’ Partisan Hoaxes, Witch Hunts, & Con Jobs. Registered Democrats and Independents are leaving the Democrat Party in droves, & we are welcoming these voters to the Republican Party w/ wide open arms!

THE BEST IS YET TO COME!

 

[ChristianProgressive]

Democrats control a good number of State governments, they have partial control of the Federal government

The GOP has rendered Congress impotent as long as they control one house. They've been doing that since 2010.

and the police is composed of such a wide variety of different institutions controlling it is a pipe dream.

The police will back the "legitimate" government the overwhelming majority of the time, even when it manifestly is no longer legitimate.

The GOP nominally controls the army but has the support of less than half the officer corps.

Which is why Trump has quietly been meeting with enlisted soldiers for months without their officers present.

In the meantime all the largest cities and the richest states are controlled by the Democrats..

Bully for them.

Enacting a dictatorship in a networked system like the USA is difficult if you have the people on your side. Trump doesn't, at most he has the plurality of the plurality and the obsolete electoral system magnifies that enormously.

McHrozni

And yet the fascist a-word sits in the Oval Office and likely will remain.

 

[Ladewig]

Non-issue.

What do you mean non-issue?

The letter from the cabinet temporarily removes the president from office until both houses of Congress vote on the issue. Without each house producing a 2/3 vote for removal, the president takes back the office from the Vice President.
.

Maybe, who knows. It certainly requires a little bravery on behalf of Pence and the cabinet, which is going to be difficult, seeing as bootlicking and distilled cowardice are necessary qualifications for the job.

McHrozni

No.
Not maybe.
The Senate will not produce a 2/3 vote to remove the president under a 25th Amendment vote, which means the president would retain the office and the most vindictive man in America would not let VP Pence off easy.

Plus, VP Pence would be the target of all the anger of the 40%of the nation who unconditionally support President Trump.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

How exactly, and also why, do you suggest we save you from yourselves?

Hans

The same way the US helped you stop fascism the last time. But you won't until as long as it stays within US borders.

 

[Ladewig]

The
Which is why Trump has quietly been meeting with enlisted soldiers for months without their officers present.

Is a citation available?

 

[ChristianProgressive]

Would that have prevented a Trump-like character from gaining the presidency though?

I could imagine it might actually benefit wanna-be demagogues like Trump, since no longer do they have to get ~50% of the votes, but a 3 or 4 way split would mean he could gain plurality with a smaller share of the votes.

It might make more of a difference in congress (more parties means more views represented in congress), but here in Canada we regularly see parties get majorities despite getting only ~40% of the vote (thanks to 3 or 4 way vote splits). So I could see a Trump-like figure getting the presidency despite only getting 1/3 of the popular vote (if they still did better than the other candidates) and getting supported by Republicans in congress (who managed to get power with ~40% of the votes).

BoJo proves that Parliamentary democracies are just as vulnerable to this BS.