Does the IDF target civilians?

Mycroft said:
My guess is high school age.
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In my experience, you normally don't see this degree of Kool-Aid chugging till college, or at least college age. That's about the time the girls these people are trying to impress get involved in politics, which is why THEY get involved in politics.
 
Orwell said:
IDF soldiers kill eleven year-old Palestinian girl in Nablus, September 2004
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Good lord, Orwell, it takes five minutes to read these. Are you really THAT busy?

Then I heard a bullet shot and I thought that the army wanted to scare the people gathered in the street to see the evacuation of the house. My husband and I turned around and then I saw Maram. She was standing a few steps away from me and had blood streaming down her right cheek. My husband caught her and ran to the ambulance. The ambulance was a few meters from us. It was a huge shock. We heard only one bullet being shot and there were no soldiers in the area.
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My emphasis.

So while you're on "irrelevancies," how old are you? If your reading comprehension skills are any measure, I'd put you charitably between 6 and 8.
 
Orwell said:
IDF soldiers kill Muhammad Diriyah, father of six, when he opens the door to his house for them, April 2004
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Sigh...

I heard one of the soldiers say in Arabic, “We’ve killed a terrorist, we’ve killed a terrorist,” but I did not hear any shooting. When I returned with Hayah and the children, we saw Muhammad lying on the ground by the entrance to the house.
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Even your uncorroborated anecdotes don't back up your claims that the IDF "targets" civilians - all you have here is IDF claiming to have killed a terrorist, and since it's his widow telling the story, I'm not even convinced they were mistaken in THAT.

Orwell, give up.
 
Jocko said:
Even your uncorroborated anecdotes don't back up your claims that the IDF "targets" civilians - all you have here is IDF claiming to have killed a terrorist, and since it's his widow telling the story, I'm not even convinced they were mistaken in THAT.
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This HAS to be a joke. Because his widow is telling the story, he must have been a terrorist? Ye gods.
 
Cleon said:
This HAS to be a joke. Because his widow is telling the story, he must have been a terrorist? Ye gods.
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No, I said - as SHE said - that the IDF claimed to have killed a terrorist, not a civilian. Read for meaning, will you?
 
Cleon said:
Are you joking? Who do you think "the army" is, Ukranians? Geez, the depths some people will jump to to avoid acknowledging the obvious.
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Gee, Cleon, get a few hundred wanna-be martyrs marching in the street and they look like troops to me... pardon my being a stickler in insisting the IDF be mentioned in a supposed point about the IDF.

Geez, the depths some people will go to avoid reading their own supposed evidence...
 
Jocko said:
Gee, Cleon, get a few hundred wanna-be martyrs marching in the street and they look like troops to me...
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Thereby establishing that you have no intent of looking at the evidence remotely objectively, and would rather twist and pull anything to avoid admitting the IDF has done wrong.
 
Jocko said:
No, I said - as SHE said - that the IDF claimed to have killed a terrorist, not a civilian.
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Ooh, nice try, but the spin is just a wee bit off. She said an IDF soldier shouted "we killed a terrorist." That doesn't automatically make him one, y'know.
 
Jocko said:
Orwell, give up.
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should you also consider giving up trying to distractfrom and/or belittle orwells material with irrelevant ad homs and some strange fixation about posters ages?

One thing that orwells long list of examples points out is how those here that claim they are not rank apologists for this Israeli government and its army steadfastly place thier fingers in the ears, look the other way and whistle a happy tune rather than face the obvious fact that there is a Huge problem with the way the IDF treats Palestinians.....I'm not talking about terrorists or murderers, I'm talking about Palestinians.
 
Cleon said:
Thereby establishing that you have no intent of looking at the evidence remotely objectively, and would rather twist and pull anything to avoid admitting the IDF has done wrong.
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Listen up, Cleon, I'm saying this just once.

I have never said the IDF never does wrong. Keep your straw for someone else, because I'll have none of it.

I have said there is no evidence that the IDF deliberately targets civilians. That is Orwell's assertion, and a dozen people have handily dismissed his supposed "evidence" as easily as I have done these last three times.

Then you stumble along, and you can't figure the difference between "there's no evidence the IDF targets civilians" and "the IDF is perfect."

You're as bad as Orwell, with your bitchy appeals to emotion while you completely ignore the facts on the table - and you're equally irresponsible in overstating the case and obfuscating the issue itself.

So, unless I can help you with anything else, I trust you'll go and produce some actual evidence before declaring your case proven. Thank you.
 
The Fool said:
should you also consider giving up trying to distractfrom and/or belittle orwells material with irrelevant ad homs and some strange fixation about posters ages?

One thing that orwells long list of examples points out is how those here that claim they are not rank apologists for this Israeli government and its army steadfastly place thier fingers in the ears, look the other way and whistle a happy tune rather than face the obvious fact that there is a Huge problem with the way the IDF treats Palestinians.....I'm not talking about terrorists or murderers, I'm talking about Palestinians.
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Here we go again, Fool. Here's my line:

"Show me where I've been an apologist. All I've said is there's no evidence the IDF deliberately targets civilians. There's no solid evidence to the contrary. Why does that make me an apologist?"

And here's the part where you call me a bigot for some reason. Ready, set, go!
 
Cleon said:
Ooh, nice try, but the spin is just a wee bit off. She said an IDF soldier shouted "we killed a terrorist." That doesn't automatically make him one, y'know.
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I didn't say it did. But at the same time, the soldier didn't cry, "we killed a civilian."

I know it's a tricky concept, like being arrogant and self-loathing at the same time, but I'm sure with a little effort you'll grasp it.
 
Jocko said:
Listen up, Cleon, I'm saying this just once.

I have never said the IDF never does wrong. Keep your straw for someone else, because I'll have none of it.
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Ah, but when you keep dismissing evidence of their wrongdoing on the flimsiest of flimsy grounds, one is left with no other inference to make.

I have said there is no evidence that the IDF deliberately targets civilians. That is Orwell's assertion, and a dozen people have handily dismissed his supposed "evidence" as easily as I have done these last three times.
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Yes, dismissal on as shaky and stupid grounds as you have done. I'm not impressed.

You're as bad as Orwell, with your bitchy appeals to emotion while you completely ignore the facts on the table
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Considering you're the one ignoring the facts in favor of rhetorical dismissal based on supposition, again, I'm not impressed.

So, unless I can help you with anything else, I trust you'll go and produce some actual evidence before declaring your case proven. Thank you.
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This thread is littered with evidence. You simply don't want to acknowledge it. Therefore, I can't help you.
 
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