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Monkey See. Monkey Do. Oops $12 million.

I’ve seen this idea of “No problem about the racism, they are going to get money later. They come out as big winners!” in this Forum before.

Well, I don’t go through my day hoping someone will subject me to a deeply humiliating public racist experience in front of my friends, peers, teachers, and community so that I may be able to obtain some money in a lawsuit later.

As Mark Twain is claimed to have written of having been tarred and feathered and ridden of of town on a rail, “If not for the honor of the thing I’d rather not have done it.”

Personally I doubt the money would overcome the disgust and awfulness of the experience itself.

Am I unusual in this?
 
Again if I may.... *dramatic pause* add on to my strawman the kids are almost certainly not going to see 12 million dollars.

The whole "Oh they are only after the money" angle is just another layer of racism, basically telling black people "Jeez you guys can't even be victims right."
 
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Giordano said:
I’ve seen this idea of “No problem about the racism, they are going to get money later. They come out as big winners!” in this Forum before.

Well, I don’t go through my day hoping someone will subject me to a deeply humiliating public racist experience in front of my friends, peers, teachers, and community so that I may be able to obtain some money in a lawsuit later.

As Mark Twain is claimed to have written of having been tarred and feathered and ridden of of town on a rail, “If not for the honor of the thing I’d rather not have done it.”

Personally I doubt the money would overcome the disgust and awfulness of the experience itself.

Am I unusual in this?
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Certainly not unique. I share your position.

The case will almost certainly be settled for less than $12m, but I hope with a significant and life changing amount for these humiliated children.
 
William Parcher said:
It looks like the pre-Christmas slideshow is a tradition at this school and poking fun at students is part of that slideshow tradition...



They poke fun at students of all races. They don't care about race. So they were doing the same thing they always do but this time they made a big error without realizing it.
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I strongly doubt that they didn’t realize it. But if they didn’t then they were so stupid and so ignorant of such a well known racist meme that they have no right to teach and mentor students. People involved in teaching are responsible for understanding and countering racism, sexism, etc. to be able to appropriately help their students.
 
ABC 7 News said:
...Parent Desmond Dent Sr. said he met with administrators and they showed him slideshows the teacher has done in the past of the class trip to the Bronx Zoo, which included white students doing the same pose with the same "monkey do" caption. Dent Sr. said administrators presented it to him to try to point out that the teacher didn't single out the African-American students.

"It's just tasteless," he said. "And if the kids can pick up on it, how does an adult not?"

Dent Sr. and Gykye's grandfather Butch Murray said administrators also showed them slideshow pictures from a previous year, which featured a picture of a lion, then three African-American girls with the caption, "Not all animals are cute."...
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https://abc7ny.com/5827320/
 
ABC 7 News said:
There was a big show of support for a teacher accused showing a culturally insensitive photo during class at a Long Island high school....

...The school board held a meeting Thursday night where more than 100 students and parents showed up to support the teacher. In fact, so many people showed up that the meeting had to be moved from a classroom to the auditorium. The district said it was "an unfortunate lapse of judgment," but many students are taking the teacher's side...

...Supporters say this teacher has taken a similar photo at the zoo with the same pose and caption for years. "The students shown in the slide in the presentation has varied over the years and have never been used to represent a single racial or ethnic group," said student Kieran Monaghan
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https://abc7ny.com/5832197/
 
Newsday said:
...In a statement Monday, the district conceded the photo and caption were "culturally insensitive" but said the teacher did not intend to mock the students. The teacher has made slideshows from past zoo trips with similar "Monkey See, Monkey Do" captions featuring white students, parents said.

"For the past several years, the high school teacher has taken a similar photo for use in a classroom PowerPoint presentation," said the statement, indicating that Heinrichs has undergone sensitivity training. "This particular photo was an unfortunate lapse of judgment. Without the intent of doing so, the photo was taken without fully understanding the sensitivity or the hurt it may have caused and reminds us that we must be more aware of the feelings of our multicultural population."...

The slideshow includes a picture of a monkey with the caption "Monkey See." In the next picture, the students can be seen standing behind each other in size order with their hands on each other's heads with the caption "Monkey Do." The next picture is of a gorilla.

Ray contends the photo of the students was intended to look like "The March of Progress," a commonly used illustration intended to show 25 million years of human evolution, with man evolving over time from apes to Homo sapiens...

Parents contend a prior slideshow by the same teacher was also offensive. In a meeting last week to discuss the incident, school administrators showed parents previous years' slideshows, according to Butch Murray, whose grandson, Gykye, 16, was in the photo. A 2017 presentation, Murray said, featured a picture of a lion followed by a photo of three African American female students with the caption: "not all animals are cute."

"This made the hair on the back of my neck stand up," Murray said of the slideshow featuring his grandson.

The four boys say, for now, they have been encouraged by the administration not to return to the science class and that they should expect to receive a grade of "incomplete" for the class. Ray contends the students should be provided at-home tutoring to make up for the lost classroom education and that the two science teachers should be removed from the class.
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https://www.newsday.com/long-island/education/longwood-central-school-district-suit-1.40407684
 
"Mary, we know you're a good teacher, and your heart is in the right place. But it's recently come to our attention that you have not noticed that some of your students are black. Now, this kind of cognitive lapse would disqualify you from most jobs, but you're a teacher. So please try to think about your students a little bit more. Thanks! "
 
smartcooky said:
As judge, and assuming that what has been alleged here is the truth, my judgement would be for the whole $12m as asked, awarding the four students $20K each, and the balance of the judgement to go to a charity involved in education against racism such as the Southern Poverty Law Centre. Hit racist organisations where it hurts the most, the bottom line, and send out a warning to other such organisations that this kind of thing will not be tolerated.
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As the Judge it wouldn't be up to you to say where the money was to go.
 
PhantomWolf said:
As the Judge it wouldn't be up to you to say where the money was to go.
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Are you sure this is the case in the US? I have seen many cases of judges awarding minimal payments to litigants and punitive damages to others. It seems pretty common.
 
theprestige said:
"Mary, we know you're a good teacher, and your heart is in the right place. But it's recently come to our attention that you have not noticed that some of your students are black. Now, this kind of cognitive lapse would disqualify you from most jobs, but you're a teacher. So please try to think about your students a little bit more. Thanks! "
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"Mary, you've been a good teacher for many years, but it's recently come to our attention that you single out black students for animal-themed pictures. That doesn't reflect well on us."
 
lionking said:
Are you sure this is the case in the US? I have seen many cases of judges awarding minimal payments to litigants and punitive damages to others. It seems pretty common.
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INAL, but in my quick searching I have found nothing that would indicate that Judges award punitive damages to non-participating parties. Can you provide examples?
 
PhantomWolf said:
INAL, but in my quick searching I have found nothing that would indicate that Judges award punitive damages to non-participating parties. Can you provide examples?
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No examples, but I think it's a pretty straightforward bit of juridical discretion.

"Your sentence is to pay X dollars to Charity Y. *bang* Court is adjourned."
 
theprestige said:
No examples, but I think it's a pretty straightforward bit of juridical discretion.

"Your sentence is to pay X dollars to Charity Y. *bang* Court is adjourned."
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In criminal cases I can see that as the punitive action is to the State, and the Judge as representative of the State could direct it, but in a Civil Trial then any award to to the Plaintive, and so I don't see the ability of a Judge to divert that from them.
 
I'd also note that most Civil Trials in the US are determined by Juries, not Judges.
 
Monkey see, monkey do is an old saying for everyone.
People need to give this crap a rest.
 
Jimmy9 said:
Monkey see, monkey do is an old saying for everyone.
People need to give this crap a rest.
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And calling Black people monkeys is just as old if not older, you're right though, people do need to stop doing that crap.
 
Jimmy9 said:
Monkey see, monkey do is an old saying for everyone.
People need to give this crap a rest.
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That's exactly what these schoolteachers thought, right through the moment when they equated black people to monkeys.

What's your plan? Crack monkey jokes on black people and appeal to tradition when they complain? Let us know how that works out for you.
 
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