Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 19

[Stacyhs]

I've always despised the idea of American exceptionalism. It lacks integrity and intellectual honesty. We're not perfect. We make mistakes. We're human. It's a head in the sand approach to the world.

It's also racist.

America was exceptional....at one time. It is no longer.

 

[BrooklynBaby]

Your motto is awful Brooklyn. It's like saying "I was just following orders". You're not an automaton are you?

I'm a patriot. I understand the left finds this troubling. I don't care.

 

[SezMe]

You're wrong, Brooklyn. That you're a patriot is not troubling, it's blindness of your patriotism that is troublesome. Well, that and your immense hypocrisy - did you ever utter the same sentiment during the Obama years?

 

[Hellbound]

I'm a patriot. I understand the left finds this troubling. I don't care.

So you're willing to be part of the final solution as long as your leader tells you so. Good to know.

Good to know that those of us that have actually sacrificed for our nations ideals disagree

 

[leonAzul]

"So far, so good!"... Well, aren't you just the lucky one, Dipwad?

" I will be making a statement tomorrow morning." Oh, be still my foolish heart!

He got me at "All is well!"

Anyone else immediately think of the ending to "Bubba Ho-Tep"

 

[acbytesla]

I'm a patriot. I understand the left finds this troubling. I don't care.

It's pretty clear you don't care. But you're right. I find blind patriotism troubling. Fighting for principles is understandable, but not just because an idiot told you to.

 

[alfaniner]

He got me at "All is well!"

Anyone else immediately think of the ending to "Bubba Ho-Tep"

Not sure about that one, but I had Animal House in mind. Kevin Bacon, even.

 

[bruto]

I'm a patriot. I understand the left finds this troubling. I don't care.

Many of us are patriots, which is why those of us who think our country is being damaged are troubled. I understand that you do not understand this. I doubt you ever will.

 

[acbytesla]

America was exceptional....at one time. It is no longer.

We've accomplished a great deal. No question. There are many great things about our country to be proud of. But there is no need to puff out our chest and declare we're better than everyone else. Especially when there are reasons to question that exceptionalism.

And if we are, why are we? What makes us exceptional? Is it that we're rich? Or is it something else? I've always believed it was certain principles not just our wealth or our military might.

 

[Stacyhs]

We've accomplished a great deal. No question. There are many great things about our country to be proud of. But there is no need to puff out our chest and declare we're better than everyone else. Especially when there are reasons to question that exceptionalism.

And if we are, why are we? What makes us exceptional? Is it that we're rich? Or is it something else? I've always believed it was certain principles not just our wealth or our military might.

Agreed. We were exceptional. No other country offered the individual freedoms and rights we did along with the ability to achieve almost anything no matter a person's humble origins. That is no longer true. We are not the only country to offer these...and more. We have become arrogant.

 

[Pixel42]

The full quote being, of course, "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

It's not an appeal to follow your country no matter what, it an appeal to fix **** when it goes wrong instead of abandoning the country. This is why 'patriots' like to omit the 2nd half, they'd have to admit that their country is in the wrong sometimes.

Thanks for that, I'd never seen the full quote and assumed it was always meant as BrooklynBaby used it and was therefore despicable. Now I understand and agree with it.

 

[Steve]

Agreed. We were exceptional. No other country offered the individual freedoms and rights we did along with the ability to achieve almost anything no matter a person's humble origins. That is no longer true. We are not the only country to offer these...and more. We have become arrogant.

That was never the case. That position is just another example of American arrogance.

 

[Bob001]

Russian trolls targeting U.S. troops. Trump doesn't care.

The Trump administration has for nearly two years ignored mounting evidence that Russian operatives and other foreign actors were deliberately targeting U.S. troops and veterans with online disinformation amplified on a massive scale, a leading veterans group said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ns-trumps-government-isnt-helping-group-says/

 

[Stacyhs]

That was never the case. That position is just another example of American arrogance.

Would you care to elaborate on that by providing the identify of other countries that guaranteed the individual rights enumerated in the Constitution pre-1900?

ETA: What other countries offered the ability to rise above the socio-ecomonic class into which you were born in the same way the US did?

 

[Steve]

Would you care to elaborate on that by providing the identify of other countries that guaranteed the individual rights enumerated in the Constitution pre-1900?

To be clear, are you referring to the individual rights that were guaranteed only to white males over the age of majority?

 

[Stacyhs]

To be clear, are you referring to the individual rights that were guaranteed only to white males over the age of majority?

Were blacks and women in other countries offered the same rights as white men in other countries?
I'm comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

ETA: I'm going offline for a bit. I'm not ignoring you if I don't answer right away.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The best way to support the Troops is to stop draft-doging politicians from sending them into an unnecessary conflict.

 

[Steve]

Were blacks and women in other countries offered the same rights as white men in other countries?
I'm comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

Yes. You may recall a time in your history when escaped slaves were overjoyed to be able to make their way to Canada where they were able to live free and improve their lot in life. Blacks became eligible to vote in Canada with the abolition of slavery in 1834.

Women’s suffrage in Canada closely followed the timeline in the US.

Real freedoms do not become such merely because they are written into a document. Real rights and freedoms are evidenced in the way people are permitted to live their lives as equals with minimal government interference. The US was in the forefront of allowing those rights and freedoms but was by no means the only country, prior to 1900 or any other time, where those rights and freedoms were practiced.

ETA We can continue tomorrow no problem. I need to sleep soon anyway.

 

[Aridas]

This.

I'm still waiting for any info on the alleged 'imminent' attack that was the (claimed) reason for taking out Soleimani. So far, whenever asked, the WH just repeats the same claim that there was such an 'imminent' attack. Perhaps all will be revealed at the same times as Trump's tax records and the emails they refuse to give to the impeachment inquiry.

Look no further. Pompeo's clarified that.

REPORTER: Can you be specific about the imminent threat that Soleimani posed?

POMPEO: "We know what happened at the end of last year & ultimately led to the death of an American. If you are looking for immanence, look no further than the days that led up to the strike."

It was imminent. In the past. And then it happened. Which leaves us squarely in "Yes, that was a brazen lie" territory.

I'm a patriot. I understand the left finds this troubling. I don't care.

You claim to be a patriot, perhaps. Given your statements and the trends on the right-wing, I don't believe it.

What I think is that you are using the word "patriot" as a nice sounding facade to justify tribalism. Much like so very many Republicans claimed that supporting Bush because he was President was patriotic, then took a 180 degree turn and were claiming that opposing Obama was patriotic in the same situations, then took another 180 degree turn and were back to unconditional support of Trump being patriotic.

If you were in any way patriotic, you should likely be horrified at the things that Trump has done when it comes to national security, for example, like the way that he just keeps giving away super-top secret information to people who aren't even close to being our friends, without even gaining anything for the US in the process. That is, of course, just the tip of the iceberg on national security, alone, without touching the myriad of other things.

To be clear, if you're not willing to condemn even things like that, you're just not a patriot. End of story.

 

[Norman Alexander]

LOL. With me it's my country right or wrong, and has been for my family for generations.

And that's EXACTLY what the Iranians are thinking about Iran. And their generations go back tor thousands of years, not just a couple of hundred like the USA. So they sort of...win?